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Bacchus Vintage Series SG on eBay
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
Interesting thread.....

In the most simple observation, the guitar DOES look pretty straight to me (other than the open coil pickups) as a legit Bacchus.... I personally have not seen a single Fakus ever. Is the discussion whether it's a vintage series or perhaps something like the new classic series?


It's definitely not new - Hisashi thought it was about year 2000 and I owned it personally for two years. When I was selling it I asked the Bacchus Dealer what they knew about it, to have some info to put in the advert. They asked Deviser to confirm their own opinion which was early Vintage Series BSG-68V with changed wiring. Deviser examined the many photos and confirmed that opinion.

I would never have simply told someone that their statement was incorrect if I didn't have info from a proper source, in this case, the people who actually made the guitar.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no doubt it's a Bacchus, made in Japan and probably in terms of construction exactly the same as a vintage series, but does that make it a Vintage series? The model designation in this case BSG-68V on a non-vintage series SG would be something like BSG-120 i.e. the Yen price and not the year with a 'V' suffix.

to repeat myself:

I've had a lot of Bacchi through my hands with the original certificates, some with 'V' suffixes on the model designations and some without, in EVERY case the 'V''s have had serial nimbers, Strats, Tele's, SG's (see three pics in second post), Les Pauls and one Vee (does that make it a VeeV)

I have NEVER seen a V model without a S/N

Now I know that isn't proof, but neither is an email from someone who works for Deviser, I'm not stating I'm right or you're wrong, just that I would love to see some hard evidence to did-prove my theory that ALL vintage series had serial no's.

I know Bacchus issued certificates with model numbers on guitars without serials so surely there must be one somewhere?
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were there Vintage Series and non Vintage Series SG's? Again, what's the difference between them other than the V in the model number??

Vintage Series strats stand out from the others because of the obvious.... nitro, correct headstock, etc.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
Were there Vintage Series and non Vintage Series SG's? Again, what's the difference between them other than the V in the model number??

Vintage Series strats stand out from the others because of the obvious.... nitro, correct headstock, etc.


You're right, no difference at all apart from the model number.

You can buy a Bacchus guitar brand-new today with with the exact specs of a vintage series one, it's just not a vintage series if that makes sense, the only thing that makes it a vintage series is what they called it when they made it eg a Bxx-yyV

And without proof someone that says,

"it's a vintage series, JohnA told me and some bloke in Australia told him and he heared from a bloke in a shop that spoke to someone at the Deviser"

Doesn't carry a lot of weight
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
There is no doubt it's a Bacchus, made in Japan and probably in terms of construction exactly the same as a vintage series, but does that make it a Vintage series? The model designation in this case BSG-68V on a non-vintage series SG would be something like BSG-120 i.e. the Yen price and not the year with a 'V' suffix.

to repeat myself:

I've had a lot of Bacchi through my hands with the original certificates, some with 'V' suffixes on the model designations and some without, in EVERY case the 'V''s have had serial nimbers, Strats, Tele's, SG's (see three pics in second post), Les Pauls and one Vee (does that make it a VeeV)

I have NEVER seen a V model without a S/N

Now I know that isn't proof, but neither is an email from someone who works for Deviser, I'm not stating I'm right or you're wrong, just that I would love to see some hard evidence to did-prove my theory that ALL vintage series had serial no's.

I know Bacchus issued certificates with model numbers on guitars without serials so surely there must be one somewhere?


What would be the point - without the serial number it couldn't be proved that the certificate went with any particular guitar? Although, I'd bet that when they were new they all came with a certificate.

There could be a collector grade Vintage Series set neck model out there somewhere with its original certificate, but I doubt I'll ever see one in my lifetime.

What is the definition of a Vintage Series anyway? Vintage style clones? You would think that no oil finished model could ever be part of the Vintage Series, and in fact that was the belief on this forum not more than a year or two ago. I recently suggested that a certain Tele was not technically a V because it had a 22 fret neck, but if I believe that then I should also believe that no oil finished Bacchus guitar can be a V either, as those features are not in keeping with the originals they are copying.

Your theory, although it makes sense to you and probably others, does not stand as a fact that needs disproving, it also needs proof that it is correct. Putting aside the bolt on models - half a dozen Vintage Series guitars and all of them had serial numbers, so therefore all V Series guitars must have serial numbers, yet Deviser says that wasn't the case. To be fair, that is really only an assumption at best.
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:


And without proof someone that says,

"it's a vintage series, JohnA told me and some bloke in Australia told him and he heared from a bloke in a shop that spoke to someone at the Deviser"

Doesn't carry a lot of weight


It wasn't quite as casual as that - Deviser were able to see 15 photos of that actual SG, and it wasn't just a bloke in a shop, it was someone who has close ties to Deviser and has been there several times. They are the official Deviser products dealer for Australia.
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
Were there Vintage Series and non Vintage Series SG's? Again, what's the difference between them other than the V in the model number??

Vintage Series strats stand out from the others because of the obvious.... nitro, correct headstock, etc.


Ah yes, the correct cloned headstock... perhaps that is the main pre-requisite for a V?
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
marcusnieman wrote:
Were there Vintage Series and non Vintage Series SG's? Again, what's the difference between them other than the V in the model number??

Vintage Series strats stand out from the others because of the obvious.... nitro, correct headstock, etc.


Ah yes, the correct cloned headstock... perhaps that is the main pre-requisite for a V?


There are heaps of correct headstock shaped Bacchus guitars out there that are not vintage series guitars
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:

Your theory, although it makes sense to you and probably others, does not stand as a fact that needs disproving, it also needs proof that it is correct. Putting aside the bolt on models - half a dozen Vintage Series guitars and all of them had serial numbers, so therefore all V Series guitars must have serial numbers, yet Deviser says that wasn't the case. To be fair, that is really only an assumption at best.


That's half a dozen more that none.

Yes I know it's a theory/assumption and I'm happy for it to be disproved or proved.

'Deviser' did not say it wasn't the case, someone who worked for Deviser said, that's quite different.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would be the point - without the serial number it couldn't be proved that the certificate went with any particular guitar?

Show me a salmon pink BSG-68V with no SN and a matching certificate and I'll accept I'm wrong


What is the definition of a Vintage Series anyway? Vintage style clones?

Definition of a 'Vintage Series' one with a model number ending in V
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
JVsearch wrote:

Your theory, although it makes sense to you and probably others, does not stand as a fact that needs disproving, it also needs proof that it is correct. Putting aside the bolt on models - half a dozen Vintage Series guitars and all of them had serial numbers, so therefore all V Series guitars must have serial numbers, yet Deviser says that wasn't the case. To be fair, that is really only an assumption at best.


That's half a dozen more that none.

Yes I know it's a theory/assumption and I'm happy for it to be disproved or proved.

'Deviser' did not say it wasn't the case, someone who worked for Deviser said, that's quite different.


Lets keep it accurate - it was someone who is currently working at Deviser and has been for many years, not someone who may have once worked for them.
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Last edited by JVsearch on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
What would be the point - without the serial number it couldn't be proved that the certificate went with any particular guitar?

Show me a salmon pink BSG-68V with no SN and a matching certificate and I'll accept I'm wrong

I'm betting that is kind of like a Unicorn...


JohnA wrote:
What is the definition of a Vintage Series anyway? Vintage style clones?

Definition of a 'Vintage Series' one with a model number ending in V

Ah yes, the warm protection of the circular definition!
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:

Lets keep it accurate - it was someone who is currently working at Deviser and has been for many years, not someone who may have once worked for them.


That's still a long way from officially publised information from Deviser
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
JohnA wrote:
What would be the point - without the serial number it couldn't be proved that the certificate went with any particular guitar?

Show me a salmon pink BSG-68V with no SN and a matching certificate and I'll accept I'm wrong

I'm betting that is kind of like a Unicorn...


JohnA wrote:
What is the definition of a Vintage Series anyway? Vintage style clones?

Definition of a 'Vintage Series' one with a model number ending in V

Ah yes, the warm protection of the circular definition!



No, just a fact
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a post on japanaxe by Grecoburst which apparently contains info from Deviser translated from Japanese, it says

? BLS59V (the second model), is a 1959 Burst Replica, finish in urethan-lacquer, later part of 1994-1997, "V" means VINTAGE

Another assumption on my part is that if vintage series LP's finished in 97 then quite possibly the BSG vintage series did too??

The full post is here:

http://forum.japanaxe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1791
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