Tokai Inlays

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Mick51 said:
Leif said:
It is even said that the Tokai workers have to regularly chant phrases such as "Yee haaa" and "You're not from around these parts, are you boy" to get into the mind set of a southern states Gibson worker. (Okay, that second part was a lie.)
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While the current Gibson Custom Shop production is in Nashville, TN, I can attest to the fact that, in the 1950's, very few residents of Kalamazoo, MI ever said "Yee Haa". I certainly never heard it, either in Kalamazoo or Grand Rapids. In Tokai's quest for historical accuracy, it would be better to give the workers snow shovels and point towards Lake Michigan. I recall some snowy winters in the mid to late 1950's.
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I was making an attempt (possibly failed) at humour by referring to a stereotypical image of a southern states citizen: straw in mouth, cowboy hat, dungarees, standing on a porch, banjo in hand. We all know that is not how the people really are.
 
conv0007.jpg


Urgh, it really makes me cringe to see those fugly drillholes. Tokai should cut it out (no pun). Diamond, you mentioned elsewhere on this board that you talk to Tokai every day. Could you bring it to their awareness that this is a point that bothers many people? How much longer could it take to cut those corners (sorry for another bad pun) by hand? If it's a matter of cost, I rather pay 100 dollars more to get quality work.
 
Leif,humour or not, I met Tokai workers when I toured the factory, I felt they are polite and dedicated to their work people.There were women besides men working on assambley departamentit?s well known Leo Fender hired wimen because their ability to use both hands and patience needed to achieve some works.I can say they did not say any word,except Tokai?s old Master Luthier building 335s on a bench I was introduced to.They all are very profesional.

On a aside note, when I was looking for my contact at the factory,as far as I arrived before and building was reforming, I listen some people talking and opened the door and there it was Adachi-san doing a Master class for the team,the president himself! This is usual for japanese companies but not for western companies(they act as a team anf if someone fails the team fails).

I have seem some so-so inlays but I have seen good inlays too from Tokai.
 
luis said:
I have seem some so-so inlays but I have seen good inlays too from Tokai.
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Of course, and most other companies too. But the issue that people are raising is that these dodgy inlays shouldn't exist on these high-end models - here's an LS320 from the classifieds (apologies to the owner - the guitar is beautiful otherwise!). What would this have cost new - $3k?

cdd08f78.jpg
 
AlanN said:
luis said:
I have seem some so-so inlays but I have seen good inlays too from Tokai.
Click to expand...

Of course, and most other companies too. But the issue that people are raising is that these dodgy inlays shouldn't exist on these high-end models - here's an LS320 from the classifieds (apologies to the owner - the guitar is beautiful otherwise!). What would this have cost new - $3k?
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I have found some of the discussion regarding inlays to be rather pedantic. However, there is no question, there are some fretboards - and the above is an excellent example - that should never have gotten out the door. That board is not acceptable on a mid to low range guitar, and certainly has no place on an LS-320. Charge what you have to, but don't turn out junk. Or, in this case, only let the master craftsmen work on the higher end boards.
 
Completely agree with all of that Mick.

Every time I look at the gorgeous swirling inlays they've used on that guitar next to all that filler it makes me feel a bit angry at what could have been!
 
I agree that Tokai should do hand inlay work on all the premium guitars. At very least on LS200 and above.

But it seems a little uncool to dis someone's guitar that's currently being advertised in the classifieds.
 
singemonkey said:
I agree that Tokai should do hand inlay work on all the premium guitars. At very least on LS200 and above.

But it seems a little uncool to dis someone's guitar that's currently being advertised in the classifieds.
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No point pretending... and besides, poor inlay work wont affect the tone or playability. Better that the buyer has noticed them and bought it anyway; those inlays wouldn't put me off the guitar.

If someone was that bothered about the inlays, they could be replaced.
 
AlanN said:
Of course, and most other companies too. But the issue that people are raising is that these dodgy inlays shouldn't exist on these high-end models - here's an LS320 from the classifieds (apologies to the owner - the guitar is beautiful otherwise!). What would this have cost new - $3k?
Click to expand...

I agree with Alan but must say that this is one of the most beautiful fretboard I've ever seen. Just look at that grain and deepness in the inlays. Stunning!
 
singemonkey said:
I agree that Tokai should do hand inlay work on all the premium guitars. At very least on LS200 and above.

But it seems a little uncool to dis someone's guitar that's currently being advertised in the classifieds.
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:roll: I'm dissing nothing - in fact, quite the opposite if you read what I posted. It's a moot point anyway as he's decided to keep it, so it's no longer for sale.

But that's beside the point anyway - it's a good example of what we're discussing. Ignoring the fact that the inlays are shoddy doesn't make the problem go away, and not pointing them out out of a strange idea of politeness isn't helping anyone.
 
karppi said:
AlanN said:
Of course, and most other companies too. But the issue that people are raising is that these dodgy inlays shouldn't exist on these high-end models - here's an LS320 from the classifieds (apologies to the owner - the guitar is beautiful otherwise!). What would this have cost new - $3k?
Click to expand...

I agree with Alan but must say that this is one of the most beautiful fretboard I've ever seen. Just look at that grain and deepness in the inlays. Stunning!
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Absolutely. The inlay material itself is pure magic.
 
AlanN said:
singemonkey said:
I agree that Tokai should do hand inlay work on all the premium guitars. At very least on LS200 and above.

But it seems a little uncool to dis someone's guitar that's currently being advertised in the classifieds.
Click to expand...

:roll: I'm dissing nothing - in fact, quite the opposite if you read what I posted. It's a moot point anyway as he's decided to keep it, so it's no longer for sale.

But that's beside the point anyway - it's a good example of what we're discussing. Ignoring the fact that the inlays are shoddy doesn't make the problem go away, and not pointing them out out of a strange idea of politeness isn't helping anyone.
Click to expand...

Strange idea of politeness? I'm sure as hell never advertising anything on a forum where members take shots at it publicly. In my netiquette book, if you want to warn a potential buyer, you PM them, otherwise it's caveat emptor. Otherwise the classifieds section of a forum becomes the worst possible place to advertise.

"That's not worth that amount of money."

"Er, thanks douchebag. That was my starting offer."

"Those '85s have crappy pickups."

"Oh good. Now my buyers can hang on for a different guitar rather than find out for themselves."

But it is then, as you say, a moot point. Yes, those inlays are a good example of what we're talking about. The dealers need to speak to Tokai and make sure that they know that people are talking about this. I truly can't say there's anything I like about the LS320 inlays I've seen. And all premium models (or at least anything over 180,000 Yen) should have inlays done by hand, IMO.
 
singemonkey said:
The dealers need to speak to Tokai and make sure that they know that people are talking about this.
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Very true. Unfortunately, at least one well-known Tokai dealer is more concerned with empire building than he is with passing on customer complaints to Tokai. I wish I could name him, but this forum apparently forbids this now.
 
singemonkey said:
Strange idea of politeness? I'm sure as hell never advertising anything on a forum where members take shots at it publicly. In my netiquette book, if you want to warn a potential buyer, you PM them, otherwise it's caveat emptor. Otherwise the classifieds section of a forum becomes the worst possible place to advertise.

"That's not worth that amount of money."

"Er, thanks douchebag. That was my starting offer."

"Those '85s have crappy pickups."

"Oh good. Now my buyers can hang on for a different guitar rather than find out for themselves."

But it is then, as you say, a moot point. Yes, those inlays are a good example of what we're talking about. The dealers need to speak to Tokai and make sure that they know that people are talking about this. I truly can't say there's anything I like about the LS320 inlays I've seen. And all premium models (or at least anything over 180,000 Yen) should have inlays done by hand, IMO.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying, but if you'll allow me to use the hyperbolic extremes you've taken yourself - you're suggesting that what we should do is never discuss anything of this sort, and if someone gets stung for it* then that's just unlucky for them; they should have known better. In fact, all knowledge should be jealously horded so we make the markets that bit easier for those of us who know about this stuff. But hmm, how did we all learn in the first place...

There's a balance between the two. I don't think I've crossed the line here - again, I will say that the guitar is gorgeous and very much worth the money he was asking for it (but isn't any more) as you seem to be focusing on me using his bad inlays as an example of bad inlays - heaven forbid! - and ignoring the praise I've already heaped upon the guitar.

*It's all very well saying you can PM potential buyers, but a lot of sales go through without the buyer posting in the thread. Are we supposed to read minds too?
 
AlanN said:
singemonkey said:
Strange idea of politeness? I'm sure as hell never advertising anything on a forum where members take shots at it publicly. In my netiquette book, if you want to warn a potential buyer, you PM them, otherwise it's caveat emptor. Otherwise the classifieds section of a forum becomes the worst possible place to advertise.

"That's not worth that amount of money."

"Er, thanks douchebag. That was my starting offer."

"Those '85s have crappy pickups."

"Oh good. Now my buyers can hang on for a different guitar rather than find out for themselves."

But it is then, as you say, a moot point. Yes, those inlays are a good example of what we're talking about. The dealers need to speak to Tokai and make sure that they know that people are talking about this. I truly can't say there's anything I like about the LS320 inlays I've seen. And all premium models (or at least anything over 180,000 Yen) should have inlays done by hand, IMO.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying, but if you'll allow me to use the hyperbolic extremes you've taken yourself - you're suggesting that what we should do is never discuss anything of this sort, and if someone gets stung for it* then that's just unlucky for them; they should have known better. In fact, all knowledge should be jealously horded so we make the markets that bit easier for those of us who know about this stuff. But hmm, how did we all learn in the first place...

There's a balance between the two. I don't think I've crossed the line here...
Click to expand...

No you haven't.

I will tell anyone who asks about price whether I think it is too high and I'll give my reasons. Those reasons may resonate with the person asking, or they may dismiss my opinion entirely.

I simply believe that all this buying on the web with only a few pictures and the words of complete strangers to go on is a complete joke, and very susceptible to abuse. Sales must be conducted in a free and open manner IMO.
Caveat emptor is all very well when you can examine the item and look the seller in the eye, but on the internet it doesn't really hold water.
 
What's the history of this LS320?

What year is it, who's the original owner, where did he buy it, or who did he buy it from, what's the serial number?
Has it been re fretted, are these the original factory inlays?

There's no way "under normal circumstances" that inlay job went through Tokai Japan QC...there's something 'fishy' about this guitar.

Get me the info on the guitar and I'll send the e mail...let's find out the truth.
 
Hey guys remember me? All this talk about inlays, remember my posts about MOP inlays fetish? :lol:

Was just looking at my 3 LP's, LS100, LS230 and an OBG. The only one I can't see any filler is the OBG and it's for sale! Nothing to do with craftsmanship, more of a tone pref., although if one argues about inlays where else are corners being cut. Absolutely love my Tokais and mean no disrespect, but may make some wonder :-?.
 
Rekon Billy G. cares about filler around the inlays?
I cannot tell if his Tokai in this video has filler or not.
In fact the paint is coming off due to his freakin killer "tone" 8) 8) 8)
Stop breakin down Tokai's and start watchin "Stop breaking down blues"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxY-n8YTn4

Pause the vid at 3:07 = TOKAI
 
I was mistaken about the ObG above. I was cleaning the neck and noticed filler all around the inlays, it did not have the rounded corners like the Tokais, but there's filler nonetheless.
 
Check the inlays out on this ?2000 baby!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1997-TOKAI-LP-STD-59RI-FLAME-TOP-SUPER-RARE-MUST-SEE-/180622040322?pt=Guitar&hash=item2a0de99d02
 

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