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Ebay alert
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Stereohigh
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 278
Location: leicester

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed Bob who confirmed this one is Korean
-----

Hi It was made by the Fine corporation in Korea in 2006 hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob Murdoch
TOKAI GUITARS EUROPE
6 ABBEY WAY NORTH ANSTON
SHEFFIELD S25 4JL UK
TEL +44 1909 565360
FAX +44 1909 550686
Mobile +44 7866 494557
China +86 138 1725 3244
www.tokai-guitars.co.uk
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Sold my Greco wish I hadnt so need another.
or something similar, late 70s early 80s for around ?400
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Stereohigh
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Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 278
Location: leicester

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a shame though, as I am after a nice lp for a good price, having stupidly sold one and now regreting it
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Sold my Greco wish I hadnt so need another.
or something similar, late 70s early 80s for around ?400
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea? Really? I was under the impression that the Korean LRs had no serial number but a MADE IN KOREA stamp, like this LS48 I used to own.



And I would have bet good money on an FC serial number being Chinese as I'm sure we have seen Chinese models on here like this.

I'm very surprised that Bob says it's Korean. Still, at least it proves it's NOT Japanese. Which all us idiots knew all along......
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greco_burst
Guitar God


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 558
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stereohigh wrote:
I emailed Bob who confirmed this one is Korean
-----

Hi It was made by the Fine corporation in Korea in 2006 hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob Murdoch
TOKAI GUITARS EUROPE
6 ABBEY WAY NORTH ANSTON
SHEFFIELD S25 4JL UK
TEL +44 1909 565360
FAX +44 1909 550686
Mobile +44 7866 494557
China +86 138 1725 3244
www.tokai-guitars.co.uk


Thanks,

So, made in Korea and China can both have FC serial numbers?

It was never Japan made due to the obvious signs, can't really see the inlays very well, I do know China ones are 'very plastic looking', Korean more pearl like.
And the wood of China guitars are very much more plywood feel and look

Are the China guitars the lightest tokai love rocks?
I would have thought so, due to the budget material.

Mick
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the bidding is now up to ?235 with 8 hours to go. A secondhand Korean Love Rock would usually sell for about ?200 - that's what I bought mine for, & what I sold it for. The only reason the bidding has gone above that level is because of the grossly misleading information given by the seller in his ad. Somebody has been taken in by the description.

He has 8 hours to correct it, & save the buyer from being deceived by his incorrect description. I wonder if he'll do the honest thing, now he has the "proof" he wanted?
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
Well the bidding is now up to ?235 with 8 hours to go. A secondhand Korean Love Rock would usually sell for about ?200 - that's what I bought mine for, & what I sold it for. The only reason the bidding has gone above that level is because of the grossly misleading information given by the seller in his ad. Somebody has been taken in by the description.

He has 8 hours to correct it, & save the buyer from being deceived by his incorrect description. I wonder if he'll do the honest thing, now he has the "proof" he wanted?


I can only hope the buyer will buy through Paypal and comes accross this website/thread within 45 days so he can file a complaint and reverse the payment. We all know Patrick still reads this thread, there's no honesty in him.
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Big Willie Style
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 652
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live about a 5 minute drive away from a small shop owned by the guy who comissions the 'Fine' brand to be made at a local factory. He used to have licensing for Tokai here but continued making them long after it actually was over. In fact, he still has some in his shop, along with a slew on 'Cat's Eyes' Acoustics that are not made by, nor licensed by Tokai. Anyways, all of the guitars he sells do not have a FC serial number, but either none at all, or a Made in Korea stamp.

Jason
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I started it, but I think we're in danger of confusing the main issue by debating whether it's Korean or Chinese. The only important point is that it isn't Japanese, as the seller insists it is.

I think we need to bear in mind a likely scenario. The seller doesn't appear likely to do the honest thing & withdraw the ad. So someone is likely to buy it for an inflated price, & the seller will just pocket the cash and try to forget that he conned someone.

Hopefully the buyer will come on here to identify which model he has just bought, as so many buyers do after they have bought. Then we will need to direct the buyer to this thread, so he can send the link to eBay to prove his claim that he bought goods that were not as described. Also to prove that the seller knew before the sale ended that the guitar was not as described.

So maybe we shouldn't confuse the poor eBay folk (who know sweet FA about guitars) by going into too much detail about whether it's Korean or Chinese - all that matters in this case is that it isn't Japanese.

Cool?
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guitarslinger
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 379
Location: Sheffield - UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...suspect Bob's got it wrong on this one - no FC on Korean.

When production moved to China we started getting C and FC prefixes on the serial numbers. We have even had CH for a short time - now they don't have a prefix at all.

To my honest knowledge - we never had Les Paul styles with serials on prior to that. I mean - never say never and all that..but...I'd say that with a pretty strong confidence interval that i'm not far off the mark.

....Also they always used white/creme scratchplates for the back of the guitar. These can be changed of course - but it's another tick in the Chinese column.
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http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Rich-Tone-Music-Ltd
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jawilluk
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 433
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:
I know I started it, but I think we're in danger of confusing the main issue by debating whether it's Korean or Chinese. The only important point is that it isn't Japanese, as the seller insists it is.

Snip

- all that matters in this case is that it isn't Japanese.

Cool?


If this guitar is indeed made in Korea then it raises serious questions about the advice given in the forums and how it should be regarded.
What happens if he takes the Forum's advice and changes the description. Should he describe it as Chinese, as is the consensus in this thread
based on the evidence or should it be Korean, as we're told by Bob via Stereohigh. It seems to me there is almost always a doubt about the
provenance of Tokai guitars and this is just another example. In short, if we can be wrong about it being Chinese. We can be wrong about it being Japanese.

I think the seller's disparaging remarks about the Tokai Registry inflamed the situation greatly but we have to be aware that in part, he is right. Any idiot can
give his opinion as if it were fact. It does happen but thankfuly, not very often.

This thread has told the seller that there is absolutely no doubt that his guitar is Chinese. Now it looks like it isn't..................


settebello wrote:
Check the serialnumber,its chinese.


Stratman323 wrote:
Hi, a 3 screw truss rod cover, a serial number beginning with FC, and no MADE IN JAPAN on the back of the headstock means that it's definitely made in China.


settebello wrote:
And i'm sure it says made in china on the back of the headstock.


JVsearch wrote:
Chinese made guitar, absolutely no doubt about that. I mean, if it isn't a Chinese Tokai then it must be a fake...

Stratman323 wrote:
the signs that it's Chinese are clearly there in the ad - FC serial number & 3 hole TRC.


JVsearch wrote:
Any reasonable seller when confronted with the weight of opinion from a specialist Tokai forum would make his own enquiries to satisfy himself that he is not
deceiving his potential buyers. To suggest that people on this forum have to provide you with proof is very poor on your part.

Sorry, but there's absolutely no doubt about that guitar.


looktoyourorb wrote:
The members of this forum have had thousands of Tokais passing between their hands and this guitar was collectively pointed out as a Chinese model.


Stereohigh wrote:
I emailed Bob who confirmed this one is Korean
-----

Hi It was made by the Fine corporation in Korea in 2006 hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob Murdoch
TOKAI GUITARS EUROPE
6 ABBEY WAY NORTH ANSTON
SHEFFIELD S25 4JL UK
TEL +44 1909 565360
FAX +44 1909 550686
Mobile +44 7866 494557
China +86 138 1725 3244
www.tokai-guitars.co.uk
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JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jawilluk wrote:

If this guitar is indeed made in Korea then it raises serious questions about the advice given in the forums and how it should be regarded.
What happens if he takes the Forum's advice and changes the description. Should he describe it as Chinese, as is the consensus in this thread
based on the evidence or should it be Korean, as we're told by Bob via Stereohigh. It seems to me there is almost always a doubt about the
provenance of Tokai guitars and this is just another example. In short, if we can be wrong about it being Chinese. We can be wrong about it being Japanese.

I think the seller's disparaging remarks about the Tokai Registry inflamed the situation greatly but we have to be aware that in part, he is right. Any idiot can give his opinion as if it were fact. It does happen but, thankfuly, not very often.

This thread has told the seller that there is absolutely no doubt that his guitar is Chinese. Now it looks like it isn't..................


I don't have any doubt whatsoever - admittedly I may be at the limits of the pictures in seeing some of the el cheapo hallmarks of built down to a low price guitar. But I can see enough to satisfy myself that I would not buy it, and I wouldn't let a friend buy it either, unless they wanted a Chinese made Tokai, and at the current price they would be better off with a new one, although it does have a decent case.

Just look at the blinking thing and compare it to any recent LS-90 class, it's obvious.
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 8764
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the day, it's really up to the buyer to do their due dilligence on any purchase. How many times have people come here after a purchase to find out that what they paid for isn't what it is?

There are plenty of hack sellers out there - on every kind of product. People get taken every day... just like in this case.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jawilluk wrote:
This thread has told the seller that there is absolutely no doubt that his guitar is Chinese. Now it looks like it isn't..................


JohnA came up with a foolproof way of ascertaining whether or not it's Japanese in an earlier post by providing links to two Richtone ads and pointing out the different way the bridge posts are secured to the body. John invited the seller of the guitar in question to post detailed pics of the bridge area on his guitar. He hasn't done so. That rather suggests to me that the bridge posts are mounted in the Korean/Chinese (i.e. cheaper) way rather than the Japanese way.

Nobody would be getting upset if the seller described a Chinese Tokai as Korean or vice versa - they're both worth about the same amount of money. It doesn't really matter if it's Korean or Chinese, what matters is that it's definitely NOT Japanese, which the advert explicitly claims it is.
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Jockai
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Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 214
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can just see it now.......

3 days later.........

"Hi i'm a bit of a newbie to Tokai guitars ....but i bought this on e-bay

a couple of days ago .....i think it's Japanese but the serial number is

kind of unusual since it blah blah blah..."

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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marcusnieman
Guitar God


Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 8764
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jockai wrote:
i can just see it now.......

3 days later.........

"Hi i'm a bit of a newbie to Tokai guitars ....but i bought this on e-bay

a couple of days ago .....i think it's Japanese but the serial number is

kind of unusual since it blah blah blah..."

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL... my point exactly. From the comments about the forum in the listing, I'd be inclinded to investigate who he is putting down.
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