Plaintop LS150 vs. Flametop/Sunburst UK LS150

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So we can see a medium, and a short, can someone please post a long?
 
Very good informative thread here.

Takes some reading but worth it!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8444&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tenon+length&start=0


Dave
 
So we have:

Short tenons
Medium tenons
Medium long tenons
Long tenons
"Not quite as long as a long tenon but still a long" tenons


:eek: - time to get back to bolt-on necks!

So there is an interesting theory saying the lip in the pickup cavity has nothing to do with the length of the tenon, it is only there as a neck reinforcement. The nature of the tenon depends on how deep the butt of the neck is...that makes my SG a long tenon then as standards' neck go up to the pickup cavity...

I always thought the lip (glued to the body) was part of the neck joint structure and as such part of the tenon.

Maybe there should be a 1$ fine for everybody writing the words tenon or lawsuit in their posts!
 
Diamond said:
Here's a photo of an LS90/105Q tenon, someone posted it here, can't remember who...medium neck tenon.

The way I understand it a short tenon (Gibson) doesn't extend into the pickup cavity at all, a medium does...and a long extends even further by about 5mm.

Yep spot on, that's how I understand it as well.
The problem seems to be arising due to the fact that on some photos it's hard to see the extra bit in the pickup cavity filling the routed area in front of the edge of the cavity at the end of the neck.

Sometimes it looks like the routed bit is hollow (no little extra bit on the end of the neck that fills it) - this is a medium tenon.

If this is technically or scientifically wrong, fine, somebody correct me, but the important thing is that we are all on the same page. The LS-150 has a long tenon, end of story, and it's just getting confusing having people chime in saying they don't see it as a long tenon...
 
All Tokais have at least a medium neck tenon, that's all that matters.

The difference between short and medium is substantial (check the photos I posted)...the difference between medium and long is almost irrelevant.
 
Diamond said:
All Tokais have at least a medium neck tenon, that's all that matters.

The difference between short and medium is substantial (check the photos I posted)...the difference between medium and long is almost irrelevant.

I would argue that neither is that important, there are some great guitars without medium or long tenons, and some pretty ****** ones with long tenons too, the quality of the work in whatever construction method that is used is the important bit, an inch of additional wood on the neck has little effect on the quality of tone IMO.
 
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.
 
Krank said:
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.

I can't - unsure whether it is an LS-135F or a flamed LS-150 or a much higher model. Sorry. :oops:
 
Diamond said:
All Tokais have at least a medium neck tenon, that's all that matters.

The difference between short and medium is substantial (check the photos I posted)...the difference between medium and long is almost irrelevant.

+1000

But the thing that really makes the Gibson tenon lousy is not primarily the shortness of it (it's not shorter than the tenon used on ES-335s or SGs for example) but the uneven bottom surface that allows them to rock the neck up and down to get the right neck angle.
It's a clever idea (from a production point of view) but ultimately I think you need people with as much skill to get it right as you do to cut the neck tenons with the correct angle already!
 
JVsearch said:
Krank said:
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.

I can't - unsure whether it is an LS-135F or a flamed LS-150 or a much higher model. Sorry. :oops:

Is it possible to get a photo from pot cavity? LS135F don't have CTS pots and swtich by switchcraft while higher models do. If supposed that those parts haven't be changed but if there is something "cheaper" than CTS then it leaves the LSXXXF models out of question.

This thread is very nice source of information. I have always believed that the length of the tenon is the most easiest and univocal way to recognise the XXX models from XX models but apparently it is not.
 
karppi said:
JVsearch said:
Krank said:
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.

I can't - unsure whether it is an LS-135F or a flamed LS-150 or a much higher model. Sorry. :oops:

Is it possible to get a photo from pot cavity? LS135F don't have CTS pots and swtich by switchcraft while higher models do. If supposed that those parts haven't be changed but if there is something "cheaper" than CTS then it leaves the LSXXXF models out of question.

This thread is very nice source of information. I have always believed that the length of the tenon is the most easiest and univocal way to recognise the XXX models from XX models but apparently it is not.

There's already a photo of the pot cavity: http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s338/Krank77/Tokai%20LS-150/DSC01768.jpg
 
karppi said:
JVsearch said:
Krank said:
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.

I can't - unsure whether it is an LS-135F or a flamed LS-150 or a much higher model. Sorry. :oops:

Is it possible to get a photo from pot cavity? LS135F don't have CTS pots and swtich by switchcraft while higher models do. If supposed that those parts haven't be changed but if there is something "cheaper" than CTS then it leaves the LSXXXF models out of question.

This thread is very nice source of information. I have always believed that the length of the tenon is the most easiest and univocal way to recognise the XXX models from XX models but apparently it is not.

Yes, you're right it is the best way to determine whether a guitar is LS-140 or higher, but it doesn't help when determining between LS-140F and LS-160 as they both have the deep joint/long tenon.
Although the LS-135F/140F will have a two piece back according to my 2009/2010 catalogues (but that's often hard to see on a photo and may have been different in earlier years).
 
Krank said:
karppi said:
JVsearch said:
Krank said:
Could you please give me an estimated value (in ?) of the one I've posted? Year 2006, flamed top, changed hardware, etc. Unfortunately I can't go play it first.

I can't - unsure whether it is an LS-135F or a flamed LS-150 or a much higher model. Sorry. :oops:

Is it possible to get a photo from pot cavity? LS135F don't have CTS pots and swtich by switchcraft while higher models do. If supposed that those parts haven't be changed but if there is something "cheaper" than CTS then it leaves the LSXXXF models out of question.

This thread is very nice source of information. I have always believed that the length of the tenon is the most easiest and univocal way to recognise the XXX models from XX models but apparently it is not.

There's already a photo of the pot cavity: http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s338/Krank77/Tokai%20LS-150/DSC01768.jpg

So they are CTS pots and Orange Drop caps which is correct for LS-150 level, so we may be looking at an LS-150 with a very flamey top?

But are the pots and caps original? Diamond says the knobs have been changed, and they quite obviously have been changed from the bell shaped knobs to the "speed" knobs. Changing knobs often occurs when pots have been changed, so I don't know what to make of it.

At the same time the LS-250 level has upgraded Sprague Black Beauty caps, but this is from the current catalogues, so things could have been different in 2006.
 
Impossible mission :)

BTW, do the high end Tokais come with some kind of COA or any document? At least my LS135F came with nothing but how is it with higher models?
 
karppi said:
Impossible mission :)

do the high end Tokais come with some kind of COA or any document?

Yep, they come with one document, an invoice. :D
 
karppi said:
Impossible mission :)

BTW, do the high end Tokais come with some kind of COA or any document? At least my LS135F came with nothing but how is it with higher models?

I have allways received a Tokai Warranty document with my Tokai guitars:

tokaidodu.jpg





Matti
 
The UK LS150F is NOT veneer but a solid maple cap. The way to check this is to remove one of the pickups and examine the end grain within the cavity. If veneered you will see the veneer layer of wood at the top. Mine is most definitely solid right down to the mahogany. Tokai state whether tops are veneered and do not hide this fact.

4682991320_1a42089fcf_b.jpg

By the way I changed the knobs - this one has oil based capacitors you can smell the oil. - This a 2008 model.
Other identifying factors - aluminium bridge and tailpiece - you could check the weight - brass saddles - check for brass showing where the strings slots are cut.
 
MattThorpe said:
The UK LS150F is NOT veneer but a solid maple cap. The way to check this is to remove one of the pickups and examine the end grain within the cavity. If veneered you will see the veneer layer of wood at the top. Mine is most definitely solid right down to the mahogany. Tokai state whether tops are veneered and do not hide this fact.

By the way I changed the knobs - this one has oil based capacitors you can smell the oil. - This a 2008 model.
Other identifying factors - aluminium bridge and tailpiece - you could check the weight - brass saddles - check for brass showing where the strings slots are cut.

The guitar in question is not a UK model - doesn't have the UK headstock.

And yep, everybody here knows the UK LS-150/160s are solid tops, many of which have varying amounts of flame in the tops. There's certainly no dispute over this, as the actual UK dealer has clarified the situation in other threads in the past.

If you can smell oil in the control cavity then your caps must be leaking! It's more likely to be some sort of spray on contact cleaner in the pots that you're smelling, or just the lubrication on the pot shafts, oil filled caps are totally sealed.
 
Hmm yep you're right just had a look. Of course they are completely sealed. There is an oily smell though. No switch cleaner has been in there unless it was at Tokai. I'm wondering if it's the coating on the western electric type wires looks like enamal or something. Oh well who cares !
 
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