Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

is it me or does this not make anyone else silightly sick?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
youami
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 651
Location: Aussie in NZ

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Moore was in possession of that guitar for far longer than Peter Green. He's also arguably a far more influential player than Green, especially to the younger generation of players (Zakk Wylde, Paul Gilbert etc). It makes perfect sense to me that Gibson would name-check Moore. I'm sure that they would have asked Green, as they'd love to get his sig on a guitar, but if he wasn't interested, then that's his decision.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrJzT
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Bristol, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i suppose thats a fair comment, i must be the exception in terms of younger players p (well nearly thirty now)

I never really considered Gary Moore that influential on younger players to be honest, certainly from guys i know it was either vai, satch, slash, gilbert, yngwie, vh, Hammett,, Rhoads, Zakk etc. Moore was probably a few years before. I only know him really from playing Lizzy.

I guess im just thinking, for me thats Peters guitar. For me personally Peter Green had a fair bigger impact on my playing than Gary Moore. It's hard not to take it to heart really, i mean Green should have been bigger than Clapton. But sadly it just wasnt meant to be
_________________
Surpass today, what you were yesterday- Musashi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cali Girl
Guitar God


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 545
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrJzT wrote:
yeah the Melvyn Franks guy is the collector who now owns the guitar after Gary Moore sold it to him. So yes Melvyn Franks gets a signature guitar but Peter Green doesnt.


I can't figure it out either. Who wants a Melvyn Franks guitar?

Meanwhile though, Melvyn is creaming his shorts. He must be walking into guitar shops, saying "do you know who I am? Those are my guitars! I am MELVYN GODDAMN FRANKS! I have my own signature guitar, and you don't!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stratman323
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrJzT wrote:
I mean the guys been through a lot, and i think the les paul for him was a bit of sore point. It may bring back painful memories for the guy.


It probably brings back memories of Gary Moore, and that can't be good! I bet Greeny wishes Snowy White had bought it.
Back to top
stratman323
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrJzT wrote:
For me personally Peter Green had a fair bigger impact on my playing than Gary Moore.


Then you, sir, must be a player who understands feel & dynamics.
Back to top
DrJzT
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Bristol, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well his phrasing is just so good, he is the epitome of "less is more" (no pun intended). And as a guitarist thats a very hard thing to get into that mindset. We dont really have the physical limitations of say a horn player.

Although im a huge Holdsworth fan, i loathe shredders. Surely to shred is to discard something? A shredder for me is just somebody utilising muscle memory. But Greeny's playing is just so sweet, again its hard not to try and attempt to sound like him! If anything i think listening to somebody like Geeeny makes you think about your own playing a lot more
_________________
Surpass today, what you were yesterday- Musashi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemonkey wrote:
But they're clearly not prepared to be a guitar company anymore. They fail to come up with new guitars. What was the last one? The nighthawk? Not a great guitar, ok, but at least it was an original design.


CS-336, ES-339? They seem pretty good newer designs to me, although it was Orville Gibson himself who had always wanted to make the 336, so the idea was around for a while.

singemonkey wrote:
I'm sure they could get together a bunch of young designers and a bunch of young guitar makers, have them study the guitars of the Mcarty era with this brief, "They must be all new guitar designs, but follow the design principles of these '50s and '60s guitars."

I'm sure they could come up with something that would knock peoples' socks off.


No point, guitar players wouldn't buy it.
_________________
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't that the shrunken ES335?

"Take an ES335 right? But make it much smaller!"

"Brilliant! Another amazing first for Gibson Guitars!"

Compare that to the difference between an L5 and an ES175. Between a Les Paul and an SG. Between an ES335 and a Flying V. Between a firebird and (heaven help us) an RD.

Peter Green said no so they shouldn't make it? What the hell does Peter Green care? He told them (presumably) that he doesn't want in on a signature deal. Gary Moore said he did. The other dude, he's laughing all the way to the bank - the first total unknown to have his name on a signature Les Paul. Gibson is very ostentatiously not referring to P. Green. It all seems pretty straight up.

Peter Green may not be the most robust person in the world, but he's not a sacred cow either. He's a grown adult.

I'd bet money that he didn't throw a tantrum and say that he never wanted that guitar reproduced. He probably just said he wasn't interested in endorsing it. I suspect he has more than enough loot, he's known to not enjoy publicity, so he'd probably rather sacrifice a bit of coin than be paraded through guitar mags as string monkey of the week.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemonkey wrote:
Isn't that the shrunken ES335?

"Take an ES335 right? But make it much smaller!"

"Brilliant! Another amazing first for Gibson Guitars!"


Oh it's not a first by any means (don't think anyone was suggesting that), but just quite a nice design they've come out with in recent times.
It fulfils an actual need - some guitar players want a smaller ES-335, I'd like one myself.

The CS-336 on the other hand was a pretty revolutionary design from the construction point of view, even if it looked like a downsized 335
from the out side, in fact it is nothing like a 335. Ok, the design has its roots back in Orville Gibson's time, but still, it was the more modern
Gibson Co. that got the thing made.

Both Gibson and Fender have been totally burned in the past when they tried to introduce new designs, those designs have mostly been
universally shunned. The Explorer and the V were failures when they were released. It's pretty much the same today, guitarists just buy the
usual old stuff, mostly because those designs really can't be beaten. In the end the major factor is going to be the player, and the old designs
are entirely adequate for anything that a human player would want to do on a guitar (playing wise).
_________________
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:

The CS-336 on the other hand was a pretty revolutionary design from the construction point of view, even if it looked like a downsized 335
from the out side, in fact it is nothing like a 335. Ok, the design has its roots back in Orville Gibson's time, but still, it was the more modern
Gibson Co. that got the thing made.


Innerestin'. I'll check it out.

Quote:

Both Gibson and Fender have been totally burned in the past when they tried to introduce new designs, those designs have mostly been
universally shunned. The Explorer and the V were failures when they were released. It's pretty much the same today, guitarists just buy the
usual old stuff, mostly because those designs really can't be beaten. In the end the major factor is going to be the player, and the old designs
are entirely adequate for anything that a human player would want to do on a guitar (playing wise).


Now see I don't buy this. The classic Gibsons were made in a short space of time. Many were not runaway successes, but people kept coming back to them. Each had something wonderfully special. Was it just time? Well, who's pining to get a Gibson L-6?

There's a small core of nighthawk fans. Now that's a guitar that was not built to the kick-ass design approach of McCarty's Gibson. But at least it was a new design with it's own characteristics - something that continues to appeal to a handful of players.

Those classic Gibsons (besides the Les Paul of course. That, like the Stratocaster, is a 1 in million ) are not still loved today because of what they were then. They were great designs. I'm positive that, if they'd never existed and they were brought out now, they'd still become famous guitars - the same way that, like 'em or hate 'em, the Jem and the Fly have become.

The problem with Gibson in the 70's and now, is they wanted technology or heaping bling on their guitars to win the game. The RD is a cooler guitar than the Dusk Tiger, but it didn't have "it." The Les Paul Supreme? Embarassingly kitsch.

I mean, look at the SG. Slinky, asymetrical devil horn guitar in scarlet and black. Brilliant. No one had thought of making a guitar look like something you'd buy in a sex shop. And maybe because of that, they didn't take it too far and ruin it.

And then the V and the Explorer. Off the covers of Amazing! magazine. Just wild creativity, but always with a Gibson touch - although the Firebird is so way out it doesn't even look like a Gibson, although it kicks ass.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final comment - economic ideology ruined Gibson and Fender?
They will generally only make models that sell in "economic" quantities now.

Funnily enough, there's a guy on Yahoo selling an LS-60 Reborn using a sales pitch along the lines of: it was the Reborn series that helped bankrupt Tokai in the 80s.

Like the Jaguar E-Type, perhaps they made a loss on every one they sold!

The Historic LPs are about double the price of the original 59s inflation adjusted price, so clearly Gibson can't build them today unless they get a lot more $$ for them. Sure, people will say you have to compare the 59 Standard to the ordinary USA Standard of today, but that's stupid, because the USA Standard does not have the same specs as the original LP. Interestingly, the prices do compare between the USA Standard and the original 59, so the other conclusion you can get from that is that the guitar costs the same today as it did originally, but it is a lower quality product than the original. Whichever way you look at it, buyers have lost out over time.
_________________
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrJzT
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Bristol, England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm

I think for me, i just think of it as Peter Greens Les Paul. The thing is everybody has their own opinion on something, and when you start to listen to yours too much, thats when you dont take anyone elses into account. And to be blunt, Moore did own it longer than Peter Green.

I guess i watched that bbc4 man of the world documentary and felt for the guy a bit too much, is that soo bad? Sure nobody forced him to take LSD, sure nobody forces anybody to do anything in life.
But when you see somebody at the height of their game fall from grace and institutionalized is never plesant. Especially in todays age of "talent shows", lets be honest Greeny has fair more talent than any of the fools on a cowell production.
At the end of the day im not bitter or angry at Gibson for selling a product, if some muppet wants to pay way over odds for a Gibson then go for it. Its not my money. When i first saw it, it didnt sit well with me. Im sure PG is fine with it

As for the Gibson trying new designs, i tend to think its probably easier for them to play it safe these days. Most new Gibson designs are akin to a Dad trying to disco dance to the latest songs at a wedding having not danced since saturday night fever!


Although having said that i was narked off at the Gibson 339 being released straight after i bought my Tokai ES130. As that was about the same sort of price band. Although several guitar stores have assured me the Tokai is a better instrument, its just the size!!
_________________
Surpass today, what you were yesterday- Musashi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Pete's sake (literally). A lot of other people took LSD in the '60s - more or less than PG and didn't go insane. People tend to take LSD in their teens/early twenties. People tend to have their first psychotic episodes in their teens/early twenties. Go figure.

Gary Moore's association with the guitar was as a fan playing the guitar of a hero. That's not to diminish Gary Moore. Just saying that he got hold of that guitar precisely because he was a huge Peter Green fan. He didn't just accidentally end up with that guitar. i.e., it's the Peter Green Les Paul. There's no way that Gary Moore's ownership of it could eclipse the holy/satanic things that PG did to that guitar.

And guess what? It's just another '59 LP PG would have done the same on any guitar. In fact, who knows what happened to his Stratocasters?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Udonitron
Guitar God


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 950
Location: Victoria, BC Canada Eh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one in the video does not even look aged to me at all lol. Funny how they pic the cream of the crop top for the ones on the website...and the prices!? Haha are you kidding me?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flash
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: is it me or does this not make anyone else silightly sic Reply with quote

DrJzT wrote:
just trawling through the net, and i saw this

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Collectors-Choice-1-1959-Les-Paul-Standard.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfMzhshmFKc&feature=related

notice the complete lack of a mention of Peter Green on Gibsons part? Im guessing he wanted nothing to do with it, but to mention Gary Moore over Greeny?? Doesnt sit well with me

What's wrong with Gary Moore? In my lifetime he has certainly been more productive than Mr. Green, in fact, I can't think of one recording by Peter Green(i'm sure there are many) , while the name Gary Moore brings to mind immediately one of the great HM solos of all time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQRDPOd88gA
_________________
Now that I've tried a tokai; i'm itching to get an Explorer or Flying V with a tremolo bar in Cherry; MIJ of course..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group