Opinions on LS-50 Reborn Headstock

Something looks funny to me about this headstock:

Logo or tuner buttons colour? Font type for Les Paul? The fact that the sides of the headstock look like they are very dark in colour - maybe it's been refinished because the headstock was cracked?



Here's the Yahoo listing:
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/132064458

And yes I was thinking of buying it!
Questions are pending with the seller, but they have only mentioned the serial number and not answered the rest of my questions. This usually means stay away...

Many thanks for your opinions, theories or advice.
Cheers!

It's the tuners, those are exactly the ones one the 1978 Burny made by Tokai Goldtop I just got. Not great pictures, but maybe you can tell:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16670&highlight=

Looking at the translation of yours, it should be from 1978 too.

JVsearch said:

Something looks funny to me about this headstock:

Logo or tuner buttons colour? Font type for Les Paul? The fact that the sides of the headstock look like they are very dark in colour - maybe it's been refinished because the headstock was cracked?

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It looks fine. The side of the headstock is reflecting the grey fur inside the case.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Here's another headstock from an LS-60 1979 with the LS-50 for comparison:



To me, both the logo and the script on the LS-50 (on left) look more modern? Also the cloudiness on the headstock clear coat indicates the presence of moisture within the finish which can happen,
but it could have occurred after a re-finish. Then again it could just be a bit of mildew and would clean right off. The top doesn't seem to have clouded (would be hard to see on gold).

And Jacco, very interesting story with your Burny. I mean Tokai!
I don't know where I'm at with this LS-50 because if it turns out to have a 2 piece neck and quite heavy I wouldn't bid as high. Seller has not replied about the weight or whether it's had any breaks or cracks.
I guess that's Yahoo - you have to take a chance sometimes. :wink:

The script on that LS50 is definitely NOT right, I checked all my Reborns and there are subtle differences, I recon its a water slide! Your picture comparison just confirms.

wishbonz said:

The script on that LS50 is definitely NOT right, I checked all my Reborns and there are subtle differences, I recon its a water slide! Your picture comparison just confirms.

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Yep, something just seems off, and add that to the fact that one of my 3 questions was answered and the other two weren't...

The guitar is pretty genuine I think - has the "50" on the fretboard and looks like the right hardware etc that I've seen on another one the same. But the headstock may have been repaired, or I guess it could be an LS-50 Love Rock with "Les Pual Reborn" and 50 added.

Who the hell sells a Gibson type guitar without a photo of the back of the headstock anyway? :roll: :lol:

The Les Paul Reborn script is too thick. The double ring tuners are the same as on my LS60 Reborn

Tuner buttons look too close to the headstock - shorter shafts possibly - and, hard to tell from the pix but the actual button plastic looks like a different material. I don't have a reference to hand but shouldn't they be 'single-line' with Tokai stamped on the backs? Assuming everything else is OK, its of little consequence as long as its reflected in the price I suppose.

wishbonz said:

Tuner buttons look too close to the headstock - shorter shafts possibly - and, hard to tell from the pix but the actual button plastic looks like a different material. I don't have a reference to hand but shouldn't they be 'single-line' with Tokai stamped on the backs? Assuming everything else is OK, its of little consequence as long as its reflected in the price I suppose.

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The Reborn tuners are pearlized plastic as shown in the photo.... mine are exactly the same - Tokai stamped on the back as well:

Thanks Marcus, good stuff! Tuners look identical.

I have now found a picture of another Reborn with a script that is thicker like the GT one, so maybe it's a case of variations from the factory, or maybe they are replacements that were done when the original silk screened script wore off.
It's pretty easy to kill the silk screen script on a Gibson burst because it was done on top of the clear coat! A bit of polishing of your new LP would have virtually done for it.
I don't know if Tokai did the silk screen in that traditional way, but if so, it would not have been difficult for it to wear off - if you didn't know how fragile they were.

So maybe I will still have a go for this one... although I still don't like the logo because I find it hard to believe there would have been any difference between the 78 and 79 logos. But, things happen - "specifications are subject to change without notice" we've all heard it!

Here's one with the thin script, thinner yellowy/greenish logo and same white tuner buttons:

The Reborn tuners are pearlized plastic as shown in the photo.... mine are exactly the same - Tokai stamped on the back as well

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Marcus, not all Reborns have the pearloid tuner buttons. The ones on my 1979 LS80 are green. I think this changed somewhere in 1979 because your serial ends on 2653 and mine 5894.

jacco said:

The Reborn tuners are pearlized plastic as shown in the photo.... mine are exactly the same - Tokai stamped on the back as well

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Marcus, not all Reborns have the pearloid tuner buttons. The ones on my 1979 LS80 are green. I think this changed somewhere in 1979 because your serial ends on 2653 and mine 5894.

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Okay, I stand corrected. I should have said that all of the Reborns "I have seen"...... thanks

I sounded like a school teacher here.. did not want to offend you

jacco said:

I sounded like a school teacher here.. did not want to offend you

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No offense taken at all..... and you have enlightened me to something I didn't know..... it's a win, win situation! :wink:

700 quid plus commissions, freight and customs charges for a LS-50 - sounds like not much change from a grand to 1200 based on rinkyas customs declarations...... because two non-japanese bidders had a ****-fight over it...... looks like some readers don't agree with the 'fake headstock' story.

jimi123 said:

700 quid plus commissions, freight and customs charges for a LS-50 - sounds like not much change from a grand to 1200 based on rinkyas customs declarations...... because two non-japanese bidders had a ^&*(-fight over it...... looks like some readers don't agree with the 'fake headstock' story.

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Yeah, it wasn't fake, and in fact was a virtually unused early Reborn GT.
Too rich for me, because it was above the level in Australia where import duty and tax will cut in. 90k yen - $1150 AUD plus about $250 to Rinkya, so $1400 for an LS-50, it's quite a lot! I guess I wont be getting one now... :lol:

hi, just curious about the double-ring tuners: I play a 900 LS80 and the original tuners (had to replace 2 by now) have the same lousy, cheap apperaance as on the pics. like Tokai couldn't manage extrusion.

the lady is top notch, but the tuners aren't. any idea why?

cheers, rup