sg-175 vs gibson sg standard or 61 reissue

singemonkey said:

Tokai is more consistent and careful. That doesn't make all Gibsons crap. It just means you can afford to be a little less cautious with Tokais, and are less likely to be disappointed.

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agreed. I'll buy most any Tokai without having ever played it...... not so for Gibsons

singemonkey said:

I'm an African. I'll take African Mahogany any day of the week

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Yeah, pure 2010 World Cup African Mahogany.

Hey!!! Surely guitars made in 2010 using African Mahogany will now be worth more....maybe even more than honduras?

marcusnieman said:

singemonkey said:

Tokai is more consistent and careful. That doesn't make all Gibsons crap. It just means you can afford to be a little less cautious with Tokais, and are less likely to be disappointed.

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agreed. I'll buy most any Tokai without having ever played it...... not so for Gibsons

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My take too. I ordered 4 Gibbie R6s before I got one put together properly. 1 even had the tone pots unwired!!!!!!! HELLO!!!

I have seen poor quality control on Gibbies that I haven't seen with Tokai. But the best guitar I played was a Gibson R9 in Shibuya. Go figure.

Love that pic of the girl and the SG BTW.

pages plexitone said:

marcusnieman said:

singemonkey said:

Tokai is more consistent and careful. That doesn't make all Gibsons crap. It just means you can afford to be a little less cautious with Tokais, and are less likely to be disappointed.

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agreed. I'll buy most any Tokai without having ever played it...... not so for Gibsons

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But the best guitar I played was a Gibson R9 in Shibuya. Go figure.

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I think Gibson export their very best guitars to Japan, to avoid embarrassment.

marcusnieman said:

agreed. I'll buy most any Tokai without having ever played it...... not so for Gibsons

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same here.

the gibson fans will say if you play 10 you'll likely find a really good one. That's true, but if you ask me every (or at least, the vast, vast majority) guitar at ?3000 should be really good. Other manufacturers manage it with far cheaper guitars.

Dave_Mc said:

marcusnieman said:

agreed. I'll buy most any Tokai without having ever played it...... not so for Gibsons

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same here.

the gibson fans will say if you play 10 you'll likely find a really good one. That's true, but if you ask me every (or at least, the vast, vast majority) guitar at ?3000 should be really good. Other manufacturers manage it with far cheaper guitars.

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Well, I have played about ten to fifteen historic reissues and now I have one of them. Best LP I have ever played or owned. They all were different and of course there is relatively wide variation in Gibson custom shop models and I must say that to me this is more an advantage than a disadvantage. That makes room for matters of different tastes. Now you can, someday, find the one and only guitar just for you.

With Tokais it goes like if you saw one, you saw them all. An average Tokai LP is perfectly finished, it is flawless in its price range, it is clean as a surgery operating room. On the other hand you might describe it tasteless and boring. It is like Japanese car, clever and economical.

Yeah, I have had many Tokais and I am sure that I will buy them more in future and my car is very boring Japanese family model So, no offence, just one different view angle for this discussion.

Yeah. But no ones taste runs into crap custom shop Gibsons. I do think their flame-top historics are more varied in appearance than recent Tokais - which is a good thing for them. But variation in quality is to no-ones benefit.

But besides a few odd complaints, the historics seem to be good, quality-wise. Just expensive.

As to the perfect LP, I think there's some taste involved. But a lot of it comes down to the resonance of the back wood, I think. And that comes down to the particular slice of mahogany used. So there should be just as many solid backed Tokais that sing acoustically as VOS Gibsons, I reckon.

It would always be ideal to be able to play 10 or so before choosing - if you want one of those "magic" Les Pauls.

I'm pretty sure though that you won't get that from factory Gibson LPs with heavy mahogany and chambered/weight-relieved backs. Certainly my (solid-backed) LP Deluxe doesn't sing like my Tokai.

So I don't think because Tokai doesn't make LPs in clown burst or that are just rubbish that it makes them boring and pedestrian. Yes, the flame tops should be a little less consistent than they are. But the consistency of fit and finish is exactly what you want. You can put your own dings in it later.

singemonkey said:

Yeah. But no ones taste runs into crap custom shop Gibsons....

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I agree with that of course. I have never met a crap custom shop Gibson here in Finland but as I said, my experience is pretty modest. It would be very interesting to know the serial numbers of those bad ones. Anyone? Plexitone?

And yes, to me the "magic" LP means strrroooonggg and resonant acoustic sound from solid wood body, '58 style not so bookmatched plaintop with faded darkburst but not too dark burst, and thick but not too bulky neck It was not easy to find one by Gibson but unfortunately it was impossible to find one by Tokai.

You can call me a Gibson fanboy now, but that is not the story. To me Gibson as a manufacturer doesnt give the guitar any extra value.

pages plexitone said:

I ordered 4 Gibbie R6s before I got one put together properly. 1 even had the tone pots unwired!!!!!!! HELLO!!!

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You must be quite an unlucky person...

My own R8 was a great guitar, and the limited experience I've had with 4 or 5 other Historics was positive. Yes there was the odd fault in fit and finish, but that is meaningless when it comes to playing the thing and checking out the tone. Also I couldn't give a ***** about small faults in the fit and finish if the guitar sounds good.

And to be honest, if you look hard enough you can find the odd fault in guitars from every maker. There have even been examples on this very board where supposedly great guitars don't work out. Add in the internet effect where people are now expected to chuck down a lot of money based on photos and sales puff... things aren't going to get any better than right now for new guitars.

karppi said:

Well, I have played about ten to fifteen historic reissues and now I have one of them. Best LP I have ever played or owned. They all were different and of course there is relatively wide variation in Gibson custom shop models and I must say that to me this is more an advantage than a disadvantage. That makes room for matters of different tastes. Now you can, someday, find the one and only guitar just for you.

With Tokais it goes like if you saw one, you saw them all. An average Tokai LP is perfectly finished, it is flawless in its price range, it is clean as a surgery operating room. On the other hand you might describe it tasteless and boring. It is like Japanese car, clever and economical.

Yeah, I have had many Tokais and I am sure that I will buy them more in future and my car is very boring Japanese family model So, no offence, just one different view angle for this discussion.

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yep, that's also a fair enough way to look at it.

I should point out I'm talking more about the standard range gibsons, I've never been able to try a cs one.

singemonkey said:

So I don't think because Tokai doesn't make LPs in clown burst...

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Speak of clown burts. Just one of many examples from the website of the forum sponsor:



Very very norlin like and there is many more. What has happened? Never seen so clowny bursts before from Tokai. Is this some kind of 70s trend or something?

Yeah. That is a bit borderline :lol:

JVsearch said:

pages plexitone said:

I ordered 4 Gibbie R6s before I got one put together properly. 1 even had the tone pots unwired!!!!!!! HELLO!!!

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You must be quite an unlucky person...

My own R8 was a great guitar, and the limited experience I've had with 4 or 5 other Historics was positive. Yes there was the odd fault in fit and finish, but that is meaningless when it comes to playing the thing and checking out the tone. Also I couldn't give a ***** about small faults in the fit and finish if the guitar sounds good.

And to be honest, if you look hard enough you can find the odd fault in guitars from every maker. There have even been examples on this very board where supposedly great guitars don't work out. Add in the internet effect where people are now expected to chuck down a lot of money based on photos and sales puff... things aren't going to get any better than right now for new guitars.

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Spend your bread as you see fit. But for me, if I order a $3000 guitar and I see tool marks on the fretboard it's going back. You want to settle for that have at it.

As far as finding fault with every maker, that's for sure. But to the point of this thread, Tokai seems much more consistent. As does Fender Japan.

pages plexitone said:

JVsearch said:

pages plexitone said:

I ordered 4 Gibbie R6s before I got one put together properly. 1 even had the tone pots unwired!!!!!!! HELLO!!!

Click to expand...

You must be quite an unlucky person...

My own R8 was a great guitar, and the limited experience I've had with 4 or 5 other Historics was positive. Yes there was the odd fault in fit and finish, but that is meaningless when it comes to playing the thing and checking out the tone. Also I couldn't give a ***** about small faults in the fit and finish if the guitar sounds good.

And to be honest, if you look hard enough you can find the odd fault in guitars from every maker. There have even been examples on this very board where supposedly great guitars don't work out. Add in the internet effect where people are now expected to chuck down a lot of money based on photos and sales puff... things aren't going to get any better than right now for new guitars.

Click to expand...

Spend your bread as you see fit. But for me, if I order a $3000 guitar and I see tool marks on the fretboard it's going back. You want to settle for that have at it.

As far as finding fault with every maker, that's for sure. But to the point of this thread, Tokai seems much more consistent. As does Fender Japan.

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I agree Fender Japan and Tokai can safely be bought without playing them as far as fit and finish goes, but tonally, that's another matter. Would you really send back a great sounding and playing guitar for a few stuff ups in the fit and and finish? I wouldn't, that would be a bad decision, but you have at it! :wink: :lol:

Actually don't recall saying anything about their sound. But now that you mention it, nothing special in that department. Bad decision to keep a piece of crap because it's supposed to be cool. But rock on...

And for the record, if it were truly were a tone monster, I'd keep it too. But not the case, it was just poor quality control.