Looking for comments re: Tokai model ES 60

I'm am considering purchasing a new Tokai (model ES 60)

It was made in Korea. I don't know the year of production but I suspect that it would be within the past 2-3 years.

The fit and finish seem quite good with only minor faults (eg. inside edges
of the "f" holes not well finished).

I'm looking for comments from anyone who might own (or have tried)
this model and compared it to other guitars of the "335 style" (and in the same price range !!) made by any of the other manufacturers.

I mainly play Blues. Any suggestions of what to choose if the pickups "need" to be changed?

Thanks for your help.

Here is a review of the NES-80:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-nes80-review.html

Thanks for your response.

The model I'm looking at is certainly similar and this review is encouraging.

Glad that it helped. I haven't had the chance to see a ES60 yet so I was hoping that review would be helpful.

Ned

Did you buy it?

I have a cherry coloured ES-60 that I gig on a regular basis. The original pickups are not too bad at bedroom volumes but the bridge in particular delivers a rather fizzy mush at slightly overdriven giging volume.

The good news is you change the pickups. I quickly replaced mine with a set of Kent Armstrong HPAN PAFs and have been very pleased with the results. I am sure that SD 59's, Gibson 57 Classics or Burstbuckers will all have the same benefits that I experienced with my Kent Armstrongs. Another possibility is to look out on ebay for a set of Gotoh PAFs from a MIJ Tokai Love Rock (make sure you get them wax potted though).

Typically I alternate between the ES-60 and an MIJ LS-65 Love Rock during gigs. Of the two guitars its actually the MIK ES-60 that is the most flexible and can cover the most musical styles.

Thanks for the reply.

I am looking at/trying the MIK Tokai ES 60 and a Washburn HB 35 at present.

Your ideas regarding pickups were appreciated. I've been doing some research in the Seymour Duncan forum (also uner the username of DAVIDO) and am leaning towards Seth Lovers. The SD '59s are also a strong consideration given the comments in that forum.

Have to decide on a guitar first !

Thanks again

Am now trying the TOKAI ES 60 and ES 80.
Would like to get the ES 80 without the "Bigsby" and in natural.
(I know that they can be ordered without the Bigsby)

Not sure about the pickups on th ES 80 as yet.

All comments welcomed..especially about the pickups

Thanks

If you're thinking about swapping out the pickups, do yourself a huge favor and check out Jim Wagner's WCR pickups. By all accounts these are among the best pickups to hit the market in a long time, and Jim is an extraordinarily nice guy to deal with.

Your ideas regarding pickups were appreciated. I've been doing some research in the Seymour Duncan forum (also uner the username of DAVIDO) and am leaning towards Seth Lovers. The SD '59s are also a strong consideration given the comments in that forum.

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that Seth Lovers are not wax potted. Not a problem for home use at low volumes (they should sound great) but if you are using this guitar for high vol live performance then the comination of microphonic pickups with a semi hollow guitar could turn your axe into an uncontrollable monster.

Thanks for the two replies re: pickups

The WCR pickups seem great but are a bit more coin than I had planned for...... not that the SD Seths are inexpensve.

I don't get out of the basement much ( ..that sounds really wierd on second reading ) so playing at higher volumes is not an issue at this time.
Thanks all the same for the warning.

I seem to go in circles with this entire pickup thing and the more that I look into it, the more I realize I'm not alone.

I think that I should just spend more time playing the guitar and developing my skills .........and give the "gear quest" a rest.

Why is it that so many others seem to have the tone/sound that you want so much and achieving it on your own is like a life-long task that requires a second mortgage to finance ? Apologies for pouring out the frustration. I guess I'm trying to buy the sound when I really should be getting it out of my fingers via my heart/soul !!

Yep, good points from both Muttleynet & Davido, ie ? microphonic pickups with a semi hollow may produce uncontrollable monster ? ? and ? more time playing, and give gear quest a rest ? .

Quoting Davido again ? ? seem to go in circles with this entire pickup thing, guess I'm trying to buy the sound when I really should be getting it out of my fingers/heart/soul !! ? Hey, this forum is in serious danger of getting too sensible!

Have to admit I?ve never done much pup swapping, but as I?m now building a ?fancy? Tele I?ve been reading all I can re. ?boutique? pups. But more I read the clearer it seems that (a)differences are smaller & more subjective than claimed, and (b)makes/models go rapidly in & out of fashion ? conclusion?I wouldn?t spend big $$$ on Bardens or Hamels or whatever (well I bought Van Zandt TV-flat poles) ? as someone once said ?if you keep your feet on the ground it will stop you getting your head in the clouds?. 2cents :-? .

Ian.

Thanks Ian:

Is you 2 cents from London, Canada or is it more 2 pence from London, England....I'm assuming England !

I was wondering if someone might reply that I should seek psychological help after the my "philosophical" post. Thanks for your support and comments.

I will be making a choice between the TOKAI ES-60 and ES-80 in the next few days (insurance claim). Am tending towards the ES -60 with natural flame maple top. The natural look has always been a favourite of mine.

I feel better now that my feet are on the ground !

FYI I spent 4 years in Isleworth, Middx. (near Richmond) as a student in the early '70s. Great time then Re: the music scene.

You assume correctly (v.close to Richmond, in fact) ? the ?2cents? is just respect for our US majority members, not sure many would understand ?my hapeth?. Yeah, I think that quote (?head, feet, clouds, ground?) was from a Judge addressing the Jury in a murder trial, if I recall correctly.

I?ve never played a semi, although as I once said here ? probably should have bought a 335 in first place (I play mainly classic blues/R&B) ? so if you do decide to buy then I?d be interested to know what you think of it :-? .

Ian.

New Game! Lets encourage Ian to buy a Tokai 335 (he sounds susceptible to gentle persuasion at the moment).

I have 4 Japanese guitars and 1 Korean guitar - my ES-60. When I go out and play I normally take 2 guitars an MIJ Love Rock and the ES-60. I imported my ES-60 from Mikes Guitars in Canada just over 6 months ago. The guitar arrived safely despite the fact that it must have been teleported across the Atlantic - ordered on a Friday and with me the following Monday morning. In comparison to the Epi equivalents the ES-60 has more of a Gibson vibe, in particular the headstock is much more consistent with a Gibson model. The only minor blemsih is the gold coloured volume and tone controls which look and feel rather cheap, certainly not on a par with those fitted to MIJ Tokai guitars. I promptly replaced mine with black speed knobs. Apart from replacing the pickups which I mentioned earlier the rest of the guitar belies its budget price tag. Shoot me down in flames here but my guess is that it is probably the pick of the Korean made Tokai models. I believe that the Korean models are made in the same factory as Dillion guitars. The main construction difference with an MIJ ES-120 or Gib 335 is the use of maple rather than mahogany for the neck. I would assume that this gives us slightly less sustain and a different tone, however the important point is the tone it gives is good!

Muttley, how nice of you to think of me old chap ? well I don?t have any spare dosh right now, but if you do have an old 60?s Gibbo 335 that you don?t want, guess I could take it off your hands, do you a favour like 8) .

Ian.

Thanks Ian and Muttley

Do you two guys happen to know each other outside of this forum?

The yellow-gold knobs...first thing(s) that have to go...for sure.
The ES 80 has the same infliction.

I don't think that Mike's Guitars would get a delivery to me that fast
...WOW ...impressive !

What amps are both playing through?

I have a 1976 Fender Princeton Reverb (12 watts) and a Fender Blues Junior (15 watts)

I'm just finishing rewiring a project guitar from a pawn shop.
It is a '56 reissue Epi. GoldTop with P90's.

Hope you get your 335 someday Ian. The pawn shop downtown here just had a '57 or '59 Gibbo ES 335...to bad I didn't know earlier that you liked the older models and I could have picked it up for you ($2200.00 CDN)
Now that is major DOSH. Just my luck...I went down to give it a try and the store was having a new hydro panel put in and had no power It sold a few days later.

Do we know each other outside forum? Nope.
What amps do I use? See amps thread here - http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2920
$2200 CDN, pretty good price if in good original condition.
Yes, prefer old guitars ? more character, more individual.
P90?s ? yummy !

Ian.

Ian - I'll have a look in the atic for that closet classic 335!

Amp wise I use a Laney LC-30II its a class A amp with a clean channel thats Fenderish and a drive channel that is very Marshall. I boost it with a Visual Sound Jeckyll and Hyde.

I miss having a guitar with P90's. I used to have an Epi Casino. I dont miss the guitar - too much hollow body feedback, but I do miss the pickups. Theres another pickup idea for you Davido - you could put a humbucker sized P90 in your prospective semi?

The decision has been made --I'm going with the ES 60 with a natural flame top.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes the store to get it for me.

If time drags on, I'll ask "muttleynet" to order one for me as he seems to have some real "pull" here in Canada when it comes to getting a Tokai in a hurry !!.

I'll stay in touch with this forum


Thanks for all the replies.

I'm a long time lurker around here, but never really bothered posting anything till now.
I would reccommend a semi to all guitar players - I've had all kinds of solid bodies and I had the semi bug for a long time, so I shopped around and played everything before I took the plunge and bought a Japanese ES-120 at the end of last year. I just ordered it from Ishibashi in Japan, and got it two weeks later here in Australia. It is an absolutely beatiful piece of work, and just plays itself. Perfect (and I mean perfect!) finish, lovely neck shape, superclean fretwork - if the fit and finish of mine is anything to go by all these guitars are great, and for the money (less than half of a Gibson 335 here) almost unbelievable.
Koichi from Ishibashi had some interesting things to say - they were sold out of all colours except the vintage sunburst (what i wanted anyway) but he said, they would actually specifically build me one after I had completed the order! Then, when I took the guitar into a local shop here for a little setup, the store manager there talked about how he had been to the Tokai Gakki factory, because they sell pianos too, and how he was so impressed with the level of quality this little Japanese company offers.
I couldnt be happier with this guitar! 8)
I'd be interested to hear the difference between the Korean model and my Jap model - anyone got experience with both?