Bacchus BLS?

Hansi · Post by **Hansi** » Mon May 03, 2010 12:00 am

Found a dude in my country selling this Bacchus, he says it's a Vintage series Live Road model but doesn't know the exact model. It doesn't have a serial number. Any info? How much do you think it's worth?

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Mon May 03, 2010 8:24 pm

I think it is a BLS-95, probably quite an early one.
Should be 2 piece back, poly finish, and could have a neck carve more towards the 60s profile. It has a medium tenon.
I think it's really nice, and looks to be in good condition.

Have a look at this info here:
http://almosttokai.freeforums.org/bacch ... s-t54.html

Most of this is probably in various places on this forum as well, but the above is a nice summary.

I would pay around 700 Euros for that, because that's what I would have paid for the one (exactly the same) that I saw on ebay, but thanks to the language barrier I didn't get the info I wanted so I walked away.

marcusnieman · Post by **marcusnieman** » Tue May 04, 2010 5:24 am

That's a beauty

Hansi · Post by **Hansi** » Wed May 05, 2010 12:01 am

Thanks for the info JVsearch! I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on this after all the stuff I've read about the Bacchus guitars. I'd love to try and find a BLS-59 since that would have all the specs I'm really looking for in a LP copy but this one looks real nice too... Damn GAS.

He's asking a few dozen euros more for it than 700 but that's including the hardshell case and the shipping so it's a pretty OK price. Would be easier to decide if I could find any more of these for sale but they seem to be kinda rare. Or no one just wants to get rid of theirs...

One thing kinda made me wonder though: Why don't some of the BLS-95 models have the "Live Road model" script on the headstock? The one I'm looking at has it though it wasn't that visible in the pics above...

MIJvintage · Post by **MIJvintage** » Wed May 05, 2010 6:46 am

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Wed May 05, 2010 9:56 am

The things you will miss out on with the early BLS-95 over the later models and 120/59/59V are long tenon, nitro and an accurate looking ABR bridge.
I personally don't think any of these things make much difference to the tone. The neck size, well, we can't tell without looking at it real closely, or even better, having a play of it. It could have a thinner neck but that's not for sure. A thinner neck will have an effect on the tone IMO.

Assuming the one you're looking at is definitely an early BLS-95 then the ones that came after are an evolution from this model, not a revolution. The later ones are more highly valued by the Japanese because they are more accurate copies, not necessarily because they are better guitars IMO. I think the Bacchus Vintage Series has always had consistent high quality construction.

Here's a BLS Gold Top that just sold in Australia for $850 and I can tell you that it is a BLS-120 (I know where it was bought from and the pics are still up in the sold section). The price is pretty good but the seller has put that the guitar weighs 5kg! Which if true, makes it a real boat anchor:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 297wt_1167

So, try to find out the weight from your seller before buying it, and I hope he's not asking for too much more than the amount I mentioned. Although I do understand the import tax deal in your part of the world, so you may be happy to pay a bit more, as the one I missed out on was from Japan, so tax would be on that as well.

I have a Vintage Series SG with an oil finish, no serial number and the same wide type of bridge as on the BLS in question, and I really can't fault the thing, it's a pretty good guitar. Whether it's the greatest SG in the world I wouldn't know, it's only the second one I've played!

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Wed May 05, 2010 9:59 am

MIJvintage wrote:as of yesterday, there were four BLS-95 examples on Yahoo Japan; a gold top with 'buckers, a gold top with P-90s, and two lemon drop tops .........

Yeah, there's a few at the moment - one of the lemon drop ones looks in really nice condition, and only 40k. A good deal I think, sadly I'd have to sell something to buy another guitar at the moment, and I don't want to sell any of my current guitars.

Hansi · Post by **Hansi** » Wed May 05, 2010 12:39 pm

JVsearch wrote:So, try to find out the weight from your seller before buying it, and I hope he's not asking for too much more than the amount I mentioned. Although I do understand the import tax deal in your part of the world, so you may be happy to pay a bit more, as the one I missed out on was from Japan, so tax would be on that as well.

Seller says it weighs pretty accurately at 4 kilos and that he thinks the neck shape is closer to the thicker 50's profile. I'm still in the talks with him about the price but I don't think I can go lower than 760 euros (which includes a pretty much brand new OK quality case and 20-30e shipping)... So it's a pretty good price for something that's quite rare over here.

Funny thing though: as I was browsing sites for info on the BLS-95 models, I stumbled upon what seems to be the exact same guitar when it was for sale in Japan... The tiny nick in the neck and scratches are in the exact same spot as on the one I've been looking at and the top kinda looks the same too

http://www.sonicsystem.co.jp/webguitar/bacchusV.html (there's only one BLS-95 on that site but it's the seventh one down)

I don't have that much experience in MIJ Les Pauls yet but I'm hoping for something that plays at least as good (and hopefully even better) than the Edwards E-LP-85SD I had about 4 years ago. And I currently have a E-LP-98LTC model but I'm kinda hoping the Bacchus would be something a bit different compared to the Eddies...

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:35 pm

That's a good price with the case and shipping, I was expecting you to come out with some huge amount the seller wanted!

4kg is really good too - just under 9lbs.

Good work on finding it in the Japanese store. And it's interesting that the retail price difference between the BLS-95 and BLS-59 is only 26k yen. I'm willing to bet that there isn't that much difference between them tone wise. It's just the extra for the nitro, long tenon and more exact vintage features - both will be quality guitars. I'm not sure about the pickups, the 59 could have different/better pickups, but that is something you can change yourself at your leisure if it's necessary.

The translation of that page reveals that they think it is 10 to 12 years old which would make it an early Vintage Series like we thought. They also mention a couple of scratches/minor injuries and that the truss rod still adjusts (and has been adjusted - I think?). I wonder what they sold both of those BLSs for.

If I had the money I would buy that BLS without delay!

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:39 pm

Hansi wrote:I don't have that much experience in MIJ Les Pauls yet but I'm hoping for something that plays at least as good (and hopefully even better) than the Edwards E-LP-85SD I had about 4 years ago. And I currently have a E-LP-98LTC model but I'm kinda hoping the Bacchus would be something a bit different compared to the Eddies...

It should be better than the Edwards, but individual guitars do vary and I have no way of telling what your old Edwards sounded like (or this BLS for that matter!). It will be different to your Edwards Custom though. Think of it this way, 12 years ago the BLS-95 cost slightly more than your Edwards Custom, so it should have started as a better guitar.

Were your Edwards lightish ones or heavier?

If I were you just make sure there is no serious issue with the BLS like a repaired headstock crack or anything like that (doesn't look like it), and pay that cash ASAP. It's a good deal.

Can you tell that I've got quite excited about it now?!
If you don't like it I'd buy it off you (if you can wait until I've got the money)!

Big Willie Style · Post by **Big Willie Style** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:04 pm

JVsearch wrote:
MIJvintage wrote:as of yesterday, there were four BLS-95 examples on Yahoo Japan; a gold top with 'buckers, a gold top with P-90s, and two lemon drop tops .........
Yeah, there's a few at the moment - one of the lemon drop ones looks in really nice condition, and only 40k. A good deal I think, sadly I'd have to sell something to buy another guitar at the moment, and I don't want to sell any of my current guitars.

Where? I did a search and only got back MIV

Jason

MIJvintage · Post by **MIJvintage** » Wed May 05, 2010 6:45 pm

marcusnieman · Post by **marcusnieman** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:11 pm

I'm going to have to find one of those Bacchus Les Pauls because I'm a real believer in the brand. If they're anything like their vintage series strats, they should not be missed.

Hansi · Post by **Hansi** » Thu May 06, 2010 12:32 am

JVsearch wrote:
Hansi wrote:I don't have that much experience in MIJ Les Pauls yet but I'm hoping for something that plays at least as good (and hopefully even better) than the Edwards E-LP-85SD I had about 4 years ago. And I currently have a E-LP-98LTC model but I'm kinda hoping the Bacchus would be something a bit different compared to the Eddies...
It should be better than the Edwards, but individual guitars do vary and I have no way of telling what your old Edwards sounded like (or this BLS for that matter!). It will be different to your Edwards Custom though. Think of it this way, 12 years ago the BLS-95 cost slightly more than your Edwards Custom, so it should have started as a better guitar.

Were your Edwards lightish ones or heavier?

If I were you just make sure there is no serious issue with the BLS like a repaired headstock crack or anything like that (doesn't look like it), and pay that cash ASAP. It's a good deal.

Can you tell that I've got quite excited about it now?!
If you don't like it I'd buy it off you (if you can wait until I've got the money)!

The Edwards' were (or the E-LP-98LTC still IS) a bit on the lighter side when it comes to LPs, probably around 3,5kg at most...

I would've probably pulled the trigger on the Bacchus already yesterday but then I came upon an Orville by Gibson Les Paul Standard 1989 sold by a dude also in Finland for 100 EUR more. It's one of the G-serial ones made in the Terada factory. So that would have the nitro lacquer, long neck tenon and Gibson pickups to boot, but don't know if it's worth the extra 100 EUR (+shipping) still compared to the Bacchus...

JVsearch · Post by **JVsearch** » Thu May 06, 2010 3:28 am

Hansi wrote:The Edwards' were (or the E-LP-98LTC still IS) a bit on the lighter side when it comes to LPs, probably around 3,5kg at most...

I would've probably pulled the trigger on the Bacchus already yesterday but then I came upon an Orville by Gibson Les Paul Standard 1989 sold by a dude also in Finland for 100 EUR more. It's one of the G-serial ones made in the Terada factory. So that would have the nitro lacquer, long neck tenon and Gibson pickups to boot, but don't know if it's worth the extra 100 EUR (+shipping) still compared to the Bacchus...

I know nothing about Orvilles, except that most of them seem to have veneer tops, and some seem to be quite heavy (upwards of 9.5lbs), if that bothers you. I doubt that the veneer top affects tone, but personally I always go for the solid top first.

Also, for whatever reasons, people seem to value the Terada ones less than the Fujigen made examples.