LS90 V LS150 - is there really any difference in sound?

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marcusnieman said:
karppi said:
singemonkey said:
I do like to think though, that the acoustic quality of the LS150 comes from the light weight, one piece back. :)
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What's the weight of an average LS150?
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Mine (2009) came in just under 8.75 lbs
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You got lucky then Marcus, because on my most recent trip to Tokyo, I saw a ton of Tokais of various models (most LS-150 and above), unlike before when they were few and far between. They were very nice, but it was like a display of boat anchors! The lightest one was around 4.15kg, with most being around 4.5kg.

Jason
 
Big Willie Style said:
marcusnieman said:
karppi said:
singemonkey said:
I do like to think though, that the acoustic quality of the LS150 comes from the light weight, one piece back. :)
Click to expand...

What's the weight of an average LS150?
Click to expand...

Mine (2009) came in just under 8.75 lbs
Click to expand...

You got lucky then Marcus, because on my most recent trip to Tokyo, I saw a ton of Tokais of various models (most LS-150 and above), unlike before when they were few and far between. They were very nice, but it was like a display of boat anchors! The lightest one was around 4.15kg, with most being around 4.5kg.

Jason
Click to expand...

That doesn't surprise me at all, many LPs seem to be getting heavier these days, well, the ones that are made of mahogany anyway. The lightest wood is being kept for the high end stuff I guess.

4.15 Kg is pretty good though - right around 9lbs, a perfect LP weight if the original bursts are used as a blueprint. The only reason anyone would feel they have to have one lighter than that, is medical reasons (bad back/shoulder etc), personal preference for light guitars (Strat player) or because they have found information somewhere (like the internet) that tells them the lighter ones are better. IMO it's more to do with the actual piece of wood used than the weight. That doesn't mean light ones aren't good, or nice when you get one, not saying that at all. Personally, I wouldn't want one above 9.25lbs because it just feels too heavy for my wimpy body.

If you've read any of that 59 clone LP build thread by Gil Yaron, he states that the early LPs (52, 53) weren't made of mahogany, but a different lighter wood. I just wonder if some of the myths grow up from wrong information.

Also, don't forget, everybody was playing 10 and 11lb LPs in the 70s and loving it! I had a 70s LP Deluxe that I'd guess was pretty heavy, but I never gave a thought to what it weighed.
 
Interesting reading guys. I have never seen a Tokai Les Paul that weights 4kg or even under. All the Tokais have felt heavy rather than light and every Tokai I have weighted have been closer to 4.5kg/10lbs than 4kg/8.8lbs. Maybe its my area (regards from Finland), maybe they send all the heavy ones straight to the polar circle :)

As JVsearch said, weight is not everything. I have seen and heard very heavy and still resonant LP:s (mainly G*****s). However, it looks to me that the unofficial fact is that an average light LP sounds acoustically better than an average heavy LP :)

I know that it is not fair to compare Tokais to much more expensive G*****s but I must say that difference between my tokais and for example my 8.8lbs solid back R8 is not just hearable but the difference is HUGE.

Chambering the body could be a good option to Tokai. What do you think?
 
Big Willie Style said:
On a side note, my Edwards JP is just a hair over 7 lbs and sounds awsome! Not as dark as my '05 LS-150, albeit with different pickups.

Jason
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My Jimmy Page is also just a tad over 7 lbs and like you said, they sound killer. Super resonant.

Any Les Paul 9.25 lbs and under, is fine for me.
 
karppi said:
Interesting reading guys. I have never seen a Tokai Les Paul that weights 4kg or even under. All the Tokais have felt heavy rather than light and every Tokai I have weighted have been closer to 4.5kg/10lbs than 4kg/8.8lbs. Maybe its my area (regards from Finland), maybe they send all the heavy ones straight to the polar circle :)

As JVsearch said, weight is not everything. I have seen and heard very heavy and still resonant LP:s (mainly G*****s). However, it looks to me that the unofficial fact is that an average light LP sounds acoustically better than an average heavy LP :)

I know that it is not fair to compare Tokais to much more expensive G*****s but I must say that difference between my ex-tokais and for example my 8.8lbs solid back R8 is not just hearable but the difference is HUGE.

Chambering the body could be a good option to Tokai. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Yes that is a good idea... if Tokai desires to make a chambered Les Paul. If they merely want to make lighter LPs then lighter wood has to be found. However, quite a few people are starting to make chambered LPs nowadays, so I think this problem of heavy wood may be a reality.

Historics are very good LPs, simple as that, and they are exactly the type of guitars that would have the better wood kept for them (they'd want to for the price). This is more likely the reason why your Historic sounds good - much better wood. It's a shame you weren't able to compare your R8 with an LS-150 of the same weight. I'm willing to bet you would still have found the R8 to sound better, although that could be partly because you believe it will sound better! Still, other people could have listened more objectively and given their views.

I had an R8 myself, and it was a bloody good sounding guitar and weighed in at 9lbs.
 
karppi said:
Interesting reading guys. I have never seen a Tokai Les Paul that weights 4kg or even under. All the Tokais have felt heavy rather than light and every Tokai I have weighted have been closer to 4.5kg/10lbs than 4kg/8.8lbs. Maybe its my area (regards from Finland), maybe they send all the heavy ones straight to the polar circle :)

As JVsearch said, weight is not everything. I have seen and heard very heavy and still resonant LP:s (mainly G*****s). However, it looks to me that the unofficial fact is that an average light LP sounds acoustically better than an average heavy LP :)

I know that it is not fair to compare Tokais to much more expensive G*****s but I must say that difference between my tokais and for example my 8.8lbs solid back R8 is not just hearable but the difference is HUGE.

Chambering the body could be a good option to Tokai. What do you think?
Click to expand...

At the moment I have three LP style guitars, two Tokais and one G.

LS85Q 2003 4.0 Kg
LS150 2009 4,2 Kg
G Std 2006 4,1 Kg

Acoustically G and LS150 are comparaple in tone of sound and LS85Q is clearly lacking some overtones and also feels little bit dead when compared to two others.

Matti
 
mattim said:
karppi said:
Acoustically G and LS150 are comparaple in tone of sound and LS85Q is clearly lacking some overtones and also feels little bit dead when compared to two others.

Matti
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The LS85Q is lacking acoustically or when plugged into an amp?
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mattim said:
At the moment I have three LP style guitars, two Tokais and one G.

LS85Q 2003 4.0 Kg
LS150 2009 4,2 Kg
G Std 2006 4,1 Kg

Acoustically G and LS150 are comparaple in tone of sound and LS85Q is clearly lacking some overtones and also feels little bit dead when compared to two others.

Matti
Click to expand...

Interesting, the lightest one is not necessarily the best sounding... (not that there's much diff in the weights)
Although most of it is probably due to the different electronics and wiring, so it's hard, if not impossible, to draw any conclusions.

Could I get you to remove the entire wiring harness, pots, switch and pickups from the 150 and try it in the other two LPs?! :lol: :wink:
Then we might be able to get a few ideas about what difference the wood makes!
 
Diamond said:
mattim said:
karppi said:
Acoustically G and LS150 are comparaple in tone of sound and LS85Q is clearly lacking some overtones and also feels little bit dead when compared to two others.

Matti
Click to expand...

The LS85Q is lacking acoustically or when plugged into an amp?
Click to expand...

The LS85Q's overtones are clearly inferior acoustically to both the LS150 and to G. When plugged into amp the LS150 is the smoothest of these three and the LS85Q is lacking some of the low ends and highest highs.

At the moment I use 0.11 strings in all of my guitars. IMO the LS85Q might be better sounding with even thicker stringing while LS150 and G would be ok also with 0.10 strings.

Matti
Click to expand...
 

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