African Vs Honduras

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thejonester

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Hi all,

the main difference (apart from hardware ect) between a Tokai ls150 (and up) and a Gibson R8/9/0 is the type of mahogany used.

Does this seem right to people?

My question would be whats the tonal difference, generally speaking, between honduras and african mahogany?

(p.s I'm assuming that the Tokai woods are African I know that on the top models the wood is often honduran)

Cheers
 
I have Les Pauls with both types of wood and I really can't tell any major tonal differences as one sounds as good as the other. My LS150 is one of the best LP's I've ever owned and it has African mahogany wood. I think it's mostly a cosmetic thing. Same argument with long tenon short tenon which I'm not sold on which is best either. Actually two SG's (being all mahogany) one with African and one with Honduran, would be the best guitars to compare tonal differences (if any) with wood species, as traditional LP's have a maple top, some even laminated as well, which influences the tone, weight looks, etc.
 
I also own guitars made from both types of mahogany. I'm not entirely sure what the actual differences are to be honest! I would say that the guitars made from the Honduran mahogany are on the whole lighter and feature nicer looking wood, but this could just be down to more stringent timber selection. Maybe it's a largely psycological premium at play here, i.e. the classic '59, 'Burst' LP's were made from this timber, so manufacturers are aware of this connnection and make an upcharge accordingly? Not being a luthier myself, I don't know for sure but I suspect that Honduran mahogany is in shorter supply (thus rarer and more expensive) than African mahogany.
 
wow.. so silent .. the subtle variation on the species, the materials,
Well only a few elite members will know .. after of course speaking to the upper management.. Then it is official. fact, and any challenge is "rubbish"
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
 
Special K said:
wow.. so silent .. the subtle variation on the species, the materials,
Well only a few elite members will know .. after of course speaking to the upper management.. Then it is official. fact, and any challenge is "rubbish"
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
Click to expand...

You obviously don't like this place much, why do you stick around?

My theory on Honduran Mahogany is that it is considered better because it is more expensive, the old cart before the horse theory. There are so many factors that go into tone, not least of which is the person playing the guitar and the listener's ears, that I don't think you would ever get an objective answer as to which wood is better. I do know though, that if I was spending big bucks on a guitar, then I'd want the best of everything. That is the market that Tokai are catering to with their top-end models.

Incidentally, does anyone know what kind of Mahogany Greco were using back in '82? Just curious as to what my RR-55 is made out of.
 
thejonester said:
Hi all,

the main difference (apart from hardware ect) between a Tokai ls150 (and up) and a Gibson R8/9/0 is the type of mahogany used.

Does this seem right to people?

My question would be whats the tonal difference, generally speaking, between honduras and african mahogany?

(p.s I'm assuming that the Tokai woods are African I know that on the top models the wood is often honduran)

Cheers
Click to expand...

Couple of points:
Tokai's high end LPs (LS-470/540) are spec'd with Honduran.
Gibson has not always used Honduran for the Historic LPs

But generally the only differences between an R8 and an LS-160 are currently:
Hardware, wood, neck profiles and price.

You could add build quality in there as well; seeing as they are made by completely different companies there's got to be some things each does differently. Having owned an R8 I can say there was nothing wrong with that guitar's build or tone, it was a beautiful guitar, and as a second hand buy, very much worth the money. AFAIK, it was not Honduran and it was dead on 9lbs in weight.

The final nail in the coffin of absolutes is that two pieces of Honduran may differ more than a piece of Honduran and a piece of African! There is no possible way to lay down any reliable general statements, but it is generally thought that properly dried wood will always sound better, as well as being very unlikely to warp or twist later on. Also wood from higher up the tree will be lighter than the wood at the bottom.

In the old days wood was mostly taken from the upper parts of the trees and often dried naturally for years, but we can't afford that anymore. Even so there were still 50s guitars that didn't sound all that fantastic...
 
Special K said:
wow.. so silent .. the subtle variation on the species, the materials,
Well only a few elite members will know .. after of course speaking to the upper management.. Then it is official. fact, and any challenge is "rubbish"
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
Click to expand...

Are you not a native English speaker? Because I can't understand what you're saying or who it's directed at.

Can you please try to say things less cryptically?

Also, how old are you? If you're a young person, well fine, knock yourself out, because I'm not supposed to understand you anyway. :lol:
 
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.

To me me thats nothing to do with Tokai.
 
Special K said:
wow.. so silent .. the subtle variation on the species, the materials,
Well only a few elite members will know .. after of course speaking to the upper management.. Then it is official. fact, and any challenge is "rubbish"
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
Click to expand...

Yes indeed there are some very special people round here!
 
Special K said:
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.

To me me thats nothing to do with Tokai.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok, fair enough - it does get a bit "Your Tokai is great", "Thanks, so is yours" around here at times, but it is the Tokai Forum, so you're going to get a bit of that. You just have to deal with it, and argue facts when the hyperbole gets out of control.
 
Special K said:
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
Click to expand...

Actually, this only applies to you, that's why you're here...we all know exactly where our guitars are made, speak for yourself.
 
JVsearch said:
Special K said:
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.

To me me thats nothing to do with Tokai.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok, fair enough - it does get a bit "Your Tokai is great", "Thanks, so is yours" around here at times, but it is the Tokai Forum, so you're going to get a bit of that.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
The "your Tokai is great, thanks, so is your's" comments are not made here because this is a Tokai forum, the same Tokai comments get made on the Gibson Les Paul forums, Fender forums, Ibanez forums, every guitar forum.

I wonder why?
 
Special K said:
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.
Click to expand...

You mean you would enjoy it more if we argued more with each other? Maybe that's why you join in more to the few threads where there are disagreements?

Call me on old idealist, but I kinda like the fact that we have a bunch of people from all over the world who generally get on well, have discussions about all kinds of stuff (certainly not just all Tokai), and sometimes even (unintentionally :lol: ) make new friends.

I can think of few things sadder than an internet forum where people ***** & snipe at each other all the time.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Mike
 
I think Special K is a TGP candidate...he'll thrive over there. :)
 
stratman323 said:
Special K said:
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.
Click to expand...

You mean you would enjoy it more if we argued more with each other? Maybe that's why you join in more to the few threads where there are disagreements?

Call me on old idealist, but I kinda like the fact that we have a bunch of people from all over the world who generally get on well, have discussions about all kinds of stuff (certainly not just all Tokai), and sometimes even (unintentionally :lol: ) make new friends.

I can think of few things sadder than an internet forum where people ***** & snipe at each other all the time.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Here here!
big friendly pat on the back!


Mike
Click to expand...
 
Special K said:
No one here actually plays a guitar... they just look at them, polish em' and take pics.,, and wonder... is this really made in Japan?
Click to expand...


BITE ME, you ignorant turd...... go start your crap somewhere else.





 
Diamond said:
JVsearch said:
Special K said:
I'm trying... but reading this forum is disappointing.
Not because of you .. just most members rub each others backs.

To me me thats nothing to do with Tokai.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok, fair enough - it does get a bit "Your Tokai is great", "Thanks, so is yours" around here at times, but it is the Tokai Forum, so you're going to get a bit of that.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
The "your Tokai is great, thanks, so is your's" comments are not made here because this is a Tokai forum, the same Tokai comments get made on the Gibson Les Paul forums, Fender forums, Ibanez forums, every guitar forum.

I wonder why?
Click to expand...

I don't know about all those forums you mention, but I can tell you for a fact that on The Les Paul Forum no discussion of LP clones is allowed - the threads get deleted. I was having a chat on an Orville thread there and it just vanished mid post. Now, the My Les Paul forum on the other hand is totally different, they talk about many of the Japanese makers with possibly Bacchus being the favourite over there.

My point was, that if there's going to be some posts along the lines of "Your Tokai is great", "Thanks so is yours" then the Tokai forum would be the natural place to find it, and a person should expect, and accept some of this sort of banter on this forum. I should add that members looking at pictures of each others guitars and saying how great they are is pretty meaningless for tone, only the player of the guitar can say how good it sounds. I'm just a bit concerned that we might be getting to the point where peoples' expectations are being raised beyond what the product can actually deliver. Some will say, well that's just selling. But this is a community and balanced information is preferable. Information here has more credibility because it is not presented as an advertisement.
 
marcusnieman said:
] [URL=http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/marcusnieman/Jams/?action=view&current=Mambos.jpg said:
Mambos.jpg
[/URL]



Click to expand...

so you post pics of yourself? I'm sure all members are very much impressed.
Click to expand...
 
Special K said:
marcusnieman said:
] [URL=http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/marcusnieman/Jams/?action=view&current=47b3cc25b3127cce9854bb5159560000003.jpg said:
47b3cc25b3127cce9854bb5159560000003.jpg
[/URL]
Click to expand...

so you post pics of yourself? I'm sure all members are very much impressed.
Click to expand...

I have to admit, I am pretty impressed with those pics - looks good! :D

I thought you said you didn't gig Marcus, or maybe that was somebody else?
Click to expand...
 
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