Boutique PAF Clones

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JohnA said:
The latest trend seems to be putting quality pickups in cheap guitars, there are a lot of Chinese built guitars using SD's at unbelievable prices, like ?100 on top of the pickup prices you get a whole guitar!! SD must do some very good OEM deals.

i`m amazed at some of these cheap guitars ...

there`s a shop near me that do pro setups on all their stock,some of these guitars are a lot more playable and satisfying than their dearer cousins ...

JohnA said:
but that little bit of improvement is enough to put a smile on my face :D

good point :)

stratman323 said:
What you're basically describing is the story of The Emperor's New Clothes

loved that analogy ...

stratman323 said:
People sell pickups because they don't suit their personal taste. I've bought a few secondhand and been very happy with them.

it`s a shame that people fork out for `em and then have to sell on
unfortunatley theres no "try before you buy"


you lot know your stuff :)
 
DrillerKiller said:
it`s a shame that people fork out for `em and then have to sell on
unfortunatley theres no "try before you buy"

Not for me it isn't. :D I got two SD Twangbangers off eBay for around ?35 each instead of the ?75 they would cost me new. I love 'em, & I'm glad two players bought them new, didn't like them & then sold them to me for half price. :wink:
 
DrillerKiller said:
my advice is buy a guitar you like the sound of !!! (you do try them first dont you?) :wink:

Yeah, great, that's marvellous advice, but completely meaningless for anyone who doesn't live in the US where the choice is enormous and the prices good.

EVERYBODY buys off the internet now, especially when it comes to used vintage guitars, even more so when they're Japanese as the best stuff has to actually be bought from Japan.

When you think about it, guitars are probably one of the things that should never be bought via the internet, but hey, like Blur said "modern life is rubbish" when they built on what Pink Floyd were saying in the 70s. What can ya do? :)
 
JVsearch said:
Yeah, great, that's marvellous advice, but completely meaningless for anyone who doesn't live in the US where the choice is enormous and the prices good.

EVERYBODY buys off the internet now, especially when it comes to used vintage guitars, even more so when they're Japanese as the best stuff has to actually be bought from Japan.

When you think about it, guitars are probably one of the things that should never be bought via the internet, but hey, like Blur said "modern life is rubbish" when they built on what Pink Floyd were saying in the 70s. What can ya do? :)

how true,good guitars are few and far between,and really good ones are rocking horse **** ... theres no way to tell looking at one ...

least the ones with vids give you some idea

i`ll never let my lust get the better of me and buy something thats so personal off ebay again

no guitars in australlia?,least you got the weather :wink:

btw cant try ? dont buy ;)
 
JohnA said:
Mole Man said:
Does anyone have any experiences (good, bad or indifferent) to share on the boutique PAF-a-likes emanating from the following UK based pickup winders:

SHED
Cat's Whiskers
Wizard
Bare Knuckle
RD Pickups

Many thanks.

Darren


Recetly bought a set of RD P1's and they are amazing, the only Bare Knuckle I own is a Stormy Monday and that's also a fantastic pickup too.

I agree with a lot of the comments to some extent, a ?120 pickup is only going to sound a bit better than a good stock pickup if it's in a great guitar, the laws of diminishing returns definetely apply with tone, but that little bit of improvement is enough to put a smile on my face :D


Thanks John!

That is exactly the kind of answer that I was after. I think that it probably goes without saying here that an expensive replacement pickup is going to sound better than a good stock unit if the inherent quality in the guitar it's going into is worthy of the upgrade. The law of diminishing returns also definitely applies to other hobbies/areas of interest - like Hi-Fi for instance!

Best regards,
Darren
 
Mole Man said:
The law of diminishing returns also definitely applies to other hobbies/areas of interest - like Hi-Fi for instance!

Very true! I wonder what Cyrus pickups would be like, if they made them?
 
stratman323 said:
Mole Man said:
The law of diminishing returns also definitely applies to other hobbies/areas of interest - like Hi-Fi for instance!

Very true! I wonder what Cyrus pickups would be like, if they made them?

Or naim? Was listening to some Cyrus CD players recently as a matter of fact: CD6 & the new CD8SE - excellent!
 
If Naim made pickups, they would have some daft (but supposedly superior) method of mounting them that was incompatible with non-Naim made guitars. Thanks God they aren't part of the guitar market!
 
JohnA said:
I agree with a lot of the comments to some extent, a ?120 pickup is only going to sound a bit better than a good stock pickup if it's in a great guitar, the laws of diminishing returns definetely apply with tone, but that little bit of improvement is enough to put a smile on my face :D

i dunno, i changed pickups in a mid-price guitar (ibanez mij rg), and the difference was pretty obvious. the stock pickups were very mediocre, though. and i'd definitely agree that you'll notice the biggest difference in a good guitar. Something of a paradox, though- cheaper guitars won't show a pickup in its best light, but then they're more likely to have poor pickups, while better guitars will showcase a pickup best, but then they're more likely to already have good pickups. i think i agree with mike, though, i'm more likely to change pickups if the stock ones just don't suit me (i they're the wrong spec, basically).

only bkps i have is a miracle man/cold sweat set... hardly paf-types... :lol:

i really liked the swineshead condor in the neck of my rg, but i think they've stopped trading... :(

JohnA said:
The latest trend seems to be putting quality pickups in cheap guitars, there are a lot of Chinese built guitars using SD's at unbelievable prices, like ?100 on top of the pickup prices you get a whole guitar!! SD must do some very good OEM deals.

well, either that or it shows how much we get gipped on duncans... :lol: i know in the states they go for about $70-$80 each, new...
 
I have BKP mules in mine...definite difference to the original, which are un-named but presumably gotoh's. There is more difference between the bridge and neck now, and clear but with more smooth midrange. I don't know if its an improvement to how other people hear me.
To add to the scientific debate, in my double blind randomised controlled trial, I play my LS more now than I did. Ho ho ho
 
I know a guy, Dom, who plays in, and directs, some of the Classic Albums Live shows. He lives in Toronto. He uses Lollars in his old Tokai. A low wind Imperial in the neck and a regular wind in the bridge. He swears by them. I think the guitar is an old LS-80. The guitar was black when he bought it, he took it to his tech who got curious what was under the paint. Turns out he ended up with one of the nicest wide-flamed solid tops I've seen. He won't sell it to me.
 
Freebird said:
I know a guy, Dom, who plays in, and directs, some of the Classic Albums Live shows. He lives in Toronto. He uses Lollars in his old Tokai. A low wind Imperial in the neck and a regular wind in the bridge. He swears by them. I think the guitar is an old LS-80. The guitar was black when he bought it, he took it to his tech who got curious what was under the paint. Turns out he ended up with one of the nicest wide-flamed solid tops I've seen. He won't sell it to me.

Great post! May I say that I think it's **** inconsiderate of your friend to not sell his LS-80 to you...
 
DrillerKiller said:
i personaly feel that most modern pickups have the edge on vintage pickups ... and a lot of hype goes into them

theres good and bad products within batches (even more so for hand wound pickups),who`s to say you`d get a good one for your $300 !!!

and as for buying second hand,if they were so good why get rid ? ... dissapointment ?

and are they really better than a good stock pickup ?

and if they are,are they really worth the markup for which (after all) is 30 pence of materials ?

if a guitar doesnt "sing" acoustically,sustain forever without help,then all the money in the world isnt going to make it ...

strings, good setup plectrum and thats before she`s even plugged in

if you want a sound to mod and call your own get butchering your gear :lol:

my advice is buy a guitar you like the sound of !!! (you do try them first dont you?) :wink:

hi DrillerKiller,

some interesting points, im going to try and answer with as little self promotion as I can

firstly you are absolutely correct, hand wound pickups are variable, every set we make is a little different, but the tonal quality is the same, I can't speak for other winders but we test every set, about 1 in 15 or so ends up rewound. consistent quality is not just an aspiration it is a business MUST and any winder who would ignore that is in peril of loosing their reputation, you never know just who has bought the last set. So botique "should" be more consistent

Are they really better than stock pickups?

Not all botique pickups are the same, some are just hand wound kits which are no better than many stock pickups, I am not speaking for, or about the other winders mentioned by the OP but i have tried at least two sets of "botique" pickups which left a lot to be desired considering the price.

an additional 30 pence of material? ......

I wish....., the materials we use cost significantly more than those used in any stock pickups I have seen, but you are right it is not the bulk of the cost for any botique or small winder,...... that is without doubt the time involved, and with that comes heating, light, electricity, machinery, tooling, and all the things the big guys use but they can make 20 sets or 100 sets in the time it takes us to make one. not to mention the fact that we are not making these in China

Good hardware has as much to do with how a guitar sustains as the block of wood it is mounted to, we have polished a few turds that began their life as a tonally dead guitar, yes the wood is important, but not as much as many people think IMHO.....

If you can find a guitar that sings, or "talks to you" and does everything you want straight off the shelf then great, many people don't like the idea of upgrading or modding, but many do, sometimes they dont have the time or even a decent or relevant local selection of guitar shops to sample guitars until they find "the one", I certiantly didn't or when I did it was so far out of my price range that it was unattainable. .... but this debate is an ongoing one that won't end here anyway.... so horses for courses I think is the appropriate phrase.

MIJ guitars are without doubt the best bang for the buck for any guitarist, they were a revelation to me a few years ago and are probably responsible for the seeds that grew RD Pickups.

Their stock pickups are better than most, but for humbuckers, only the DRY Z's are what I would call stellar, but i havent tried them all so I am not saying there are no others.

Anyway its about time the focus changed, .... maybe we should consider doing a free guitar with every set of pickups just to prove it LOL

Declan
RD Pickups
 
Well I've decided to take the plunge and have placed an order for a set of the Vintage Reloaded-P2's from RD Pickups for my LS-150!!

Unfortunately the limited time offer on these pickup sets for Tokai Forumites has now closed (Tokai web page link no longer there). Anyone who was like me similarly dithering over ordering a set at the old, offer price will now have to contact Declan at RD Pickups and beg... (I will say that having had the great pleasure of speaking to Declan at some length, he sounds like a very reasonable man).

My pickups are now scheduled to be handwound and built for this Monday evening (no Easter Bank Holiday for these guys...), with testing for the next day and shipping for this Wednesday!! (How speedy is that)?? I'm excited!!

Expect a full tone report on this thread...
 
Good choice Mole.I know you won't be disapointed.My P1s are fantasic and i love them the only thing I dont like is the clarity is so good you cant hide your bum notes :lol:
 
Nice one Moleman!! Like barburny I love my P1's, I'm sure you'll be happy! Post and let us all know what you think!
 
rdpickups said:
hi DrillerKiller,

some interesting points, im going to try and answer with as little self promotion as I can

firstly you are absolutely correct, hand wound pickups are variable, every set we make is a little different, but the tonal quality is the same, I can't speak for other winders but we test every set, about 1 in 15 or so ends up rewound. consistent quality is not just an aspiration it is a business MUST and any winder who would ignore that is in peril of loosing their reputation, you never know just who has bought the last set. So botique "should" be more consistent

Are they really better than stock pickups?

Not all botique pickups are the same, some are just hand wound kits which are no better than many stock pickups, I am not speaking for, or about the other winders mentioned by the OP but i have tried at least two sets of "botique" pickups which left a lot to be desired considering the price.

an additional 30 pence of material? ......

I wish....., the materials we use cost significantly more than those used in any stock pickups I have seen, but you are right it is not the bulk of the cost for any botique or small winder,...... that is without doubt the time involved, and with that comes heating, light, electricity, machinery, tooling, and all the things the big guys use but they can make 20 sets or 100 sets in the time it takes us to make one. not to mention the fact that we are not making these in China

Good hardware has as much to do with how a guitar sustains as the block of wood it is mounted to, we have polished a few turds that began their life as a tonally dead guitar, yes the wood is important, but not as much as many people think IMHO.....

If you can find a guitar that sings, or "talks to you" and does everything you want straight off the shelf then great, many people don't like the idea of upgrading or modding, but many do, sometimes they dont have the time or even a decent or relevant local selection of guitar shops to sample guitars until they find "the one", I certiantly didn't or when I did it was so far out of my price range that it was unattainable. .... but this debate is an ongoing one that won't end here anyway.... so horses for courses I think is the appropriate phrase.

MIJ guitars are without doubt the best bang for the buck for any guitarist, they were a revelation to me a few years ago and are probably responsible for the seeds that grew RD Pickups.

Their stock pickups are better than most, but for humbuckers, only the DRY Z's are what I would call stellar, but i havent tried them all so I am not saying there are no others.

Anyway its about time the focus changed, .... maybe we should consider doing a free guitar with every set of pickups just to prove it LOL

Declan
RD Pickups

nice post rdpickups :) just seen it !!!

"about 1 in 15 or so ends up rewound" <- good to know your on the case :)

"an additional 30 pence of material?" <-i have a good idea how much it costs to source (60p ;) )


"yes the wood is important, but not as much as many people think IMHO" <- try going virtual,with say a GK ... even dead strings still affect the tone,first thing to look for is playablility ... no sustain = still no sustain, no pickup in the world is going to change that ...

"If you can find a guitar that sings, or "talks to you" and does everything you want straight off the shelf then great" <- these guitars as we all know are rarities,as the market gets flooded with cheap knockoffs theres more chance of finding gems within them...

what i`m getting at is theres way to much hype and misinformation in the guitar world... a guitar that sounds "poo" not plugged in will still sound poo amplified (another topic of debate,what doesnt sound good distorted with fx?) ... anyone thats starting out will not notice the difference untill they go for "the note" <- :)

"maybe we should consider doing a free guitar with every set of pickups just to prove it LOL" <- i`ll get my cheque book out :lol:
 
Anybody here compared the RDs directly against the Dry Zs in the same guitar ? Just checked the soundfiles on the RD website and I guess i should own a nice pair :lol:
 
t.olsen,
we would be glad to wind you a set of pickups, and yes we have compared them to DRY Z but i guess you are looking for an independent opinion. drop me a PM or give me a call if you want a no obligation chat.

Driller,
I think we are talking the same language if we define what a poo guitar is and it is not always related to price.

Nothing wrong with a little hype if something is worth being hyped, its what keeps businesses alive, ..... however I agree that all too often things don't live up to their expectations but i am not sure the blame always lies 100% with the object of attention.

Mis-information is all around us, and from what I have seen, it is usualy the result of contrasting, and sometimes well intended subjective opinions.

Like it or not its a **** minefield out there and it is just as difficult for a business to crack that minefield as it is for a consumer to navigate it.

I am 100% sure that we (RD Pickups) can blow anyones socks off with a set of our pickups, and WE WILL find you "that note", however just in case I am wrong, we have a 100% hype proof money back guarantee.


Declan
RD Pickups
http://www.rdpickups.com

P.S I've done the calculation and unfortunately (even if the materials were only 60p more) if we do the free guitar we will be bankrupt in a week :D
 
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