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Jack Butler

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hello everybody, new guy here!
With the coolest nickname I might add.

I'm looking to buy a new Tokai LS, a 150/160.
now, i know that this years model is a LS-160, but at http://www.kurosawagakki.com I saw the LS-160 and HLS-160 with the same price tag.

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/61936.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/67735.html

Does anyone know anything about that?

Thanx in advance.
 
Hello Jack.
It?s a pleasure reading you here.

My favourites LS-150s are the first runs 2005 ones(I had one of the firsts coming to Europe). I?m not sure wich are the differences with new HLS-160s recently made,we will have to check specs advertised closely.
These LS-150s are good guitars.I don?t care about Orange Drops condensers but no big deal and pickups are decent to achieve that Les Paul sound.
 
I've got an LS150 recently. It definitely has the sound of your heroes guitars, airy, woody, beautiful. A guitar that's way too good for me, and by far the best LP I've ever laid hands on.

The obvious difference is the top - plain vs. flame.

But I don't know whether the HLS160 has a solid top or not. Given that it's the same price as the LS160, I'd have to guess it's veneer.
 
Jack Butler said:
hello everybody, new guy here!
With the coolest nickname I might add.

I'm looking to buy a new Tokai LS, a 150/160.
now, i know that this years model is a LS-160, but at http://www.kurosawagakki.com I saw the LS-160 and HLS-160 with the same price tag.

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/61936.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/67735.html

Does anyone know anything about that?

Thanx in advance.
Click to expand...

The main difference seems to be that they have reduced the neck to body angle from 4.5 to 3.8 degrees and they claim this improves the resonance due to reduced tension. There is another post about this somewhre but can't find it.


Dave
 
DaveWW said:
Jack Butler said:
hello everybody, new guy here!
With the coolest nickname I might add.

I'm looking to buy a new Tokai LS, a 150/160.
now, i know that this years model is a LS-160, but at http://www.kurosawagakki.com I saw the LS-160 and HLS-160 with the same price tag.

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/61936.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/67735.html

Does anyone know anything about that?
Thanx in advance.
Click to expand...

The main difference seems to be that they have reduced the neck to body angle from 4.5 to 3.8 degrees and they claim this improves the resonance due to reduced tension. There is another post about this somewhre but can't find it.


Dave
Click to expand...

Which one has the reduced headstock angle?I've never heard of that affecting resonance
 
The HLS neck to body angle - not headstock angle

Translated text:-

"It depends on this corporation order, it is the arrival of LS of special specification. Therefore Tokai which is high production technology very it is specification of prejudice which it is possible. Of course it is made in Japan. Present LS-98F in base joint angle of neck from Tokai usual 4.5 degrees in 3.8 degrees modification!! Tension decreases, because the chord vibrates with non stress, suspension Dean extends rapidly. The neck rigidity is high with the deep joint, transmits the chord vibration to the body securely. As for PU, the magnet and the frequency etc of winding of the wire which is used you adhere thoroughly and have reproduced [vuinteji] sound. Also the installation position of PU from usually, is mounted from in the bridge"

............... they claim it affects resonance. Also strange they mention the LS98F. We could do with a Japanese speaker to translate properly.

Dave
 
DaveWW said:
The HLS neck to body angle - not headstock angle

Translated text:-

"It depends on this corporation order, it is the arrival of LS of special specification. Therefore Tokai which is high production technology very it is specification of prejudice which it is possible. Of course it is made in Japan. Present LS-98F in base joint angle of neck from Tokai usual 4.5 degrees in 3.8 degrees modification!! Tension decreases, because the chord vibrates with non stress, suspension Dean extends rapidly. The neck rigidity is high with the deep joint, transmits the chord vibration to the body securely. As for PU, the magnet and the frequency etc of winding of the wire which is used you adhere thoroughly and have reproduced [vuinteji] sound. Also the installation position of PU from usually, is mounted from in the bridge"

............... they claim it affects resonance. Also strange they mention the LS98F. We could do with a Japanese speaker to translate properly.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave..... now I understand the concept
 
No problem - no idea if it works though, guess they're pretty new so we'll have to wait to see if someone buys one.

Would be nice to know how/why they came up with the idea - perhaps they studied some old guitars with tolerance variations, perhaps they tried new ones, perhaps it's really a manufacturing easement ......... - who knows.
 
HLS-160 is veneer flame top, and vintage specs, which is why it has a shallower neck to body angle. So, now at 160k yen you can get a solid top or a flame top with all the good stuff. If you want flame at that price, you have to accept a veneer top, it's a good idea actually as the HLS-160 could be substituted for a Gibby R9/R0. They've got everything covered at a couple of price points now.

AFAIK (from Joe on Almost Tokai) this model was requested by some store over there, but there is a whole range of HLS models. I'm not sure if they are going to be permanently in the Tokai range.
 
JVsearch said:
AFAIK (from Joe on Almost Tokai) this model was requested by some store over there, but there is a whole range of HLS models. I'm not sure if they are going to be permanently in the Tokai range.
Click to expand...

I'd not seen any of the HLS models til now. Interesting.....

Also noticed a change in model number structure on togps website:

http://www.tokaiguitar.de/produkte.php?rubrik=1&rechts=3
 
..........interesting - not a yen related model number anywhere. Does this mean we're getting what we asked for? Hope so - but if it's not adopted worldwide ther'll be even more confusion.
 
DaveWW said:
..........interesting - not a yen related model number anywhere. Does this mean we're getting what we asked for? Hope so - but if it's not adopted worldwide ther'll be even more confusion.
Click to expand...

WTF!

LS1-R6, LS1-R8, LS1-R9 if this is a company directive, it looks like they're going for the jugular!
 
Hmm - will ask Tokai UK now what's going on. If anything. I've been on at the UK distributor about this for, well.....ever.

I know he's just been out to see the Tokai MD - you never know...
 
On Japan site, there are still normal numbers and model codes
http://www1.odn.ne.jp/tokaigakki/products/vintage/index.html
 
marcusnieman said:
JVsearch said:
AFAIK (from Joe on Almost Tokai) this model was requested by some store over there, but there is a whole range of HLS models. I'm not sure if they are going to be permanently in the Tokai range.
Click to expand...

I'd not seen any of the HLS models til now. Interesting.....

Also noticed a change in model number structure on togps website:

http://www.tokaiguitar.de/produkte.php?rubrik=1&rechts=3
Click to expand...

Under the heading, "Traditional Series"?

Seems like a mistake to me.
 
JVsearch said:
DaveWW said:
..........interesting - not a yen related model number anywhere. Does this mean we're getting what we asked for? Hope so - but if it's not adopted worldwide ther'll be even more confusion.
Click to expand...

WTF!

LS1-R6, LS1-R8, LS1-R9 if this is a company directive, it looks like they're going for the jugular!
Click to expand...

We all know the LS95S and LS160S are R6 RIs, LS150s are R8 RIs, and the R9 is an R8 with a flame top....it's nothing new...I doubt it's a company directive, just another way of interpreting models.

For example...let's make up some more alternative model names...
an ES135 is a 1959 ES335 RI
an ES160 is a 1962/64 ES335 RI
etc,etc
 
Diamond said:
marcusnieman said:
JVsearch said:
AFAIK (from Joe on Almost Tokai) this model was requested by some store over there, but there is a whole range of HLS models. I'm not sure if they are going to be permanently in the Tokai range.
Click to expand...

I'd not seen any of the HLS models til now. Interesting.....

Also noticed a change in model number structure on togps website:

http://www.tokaiguitar.de/produkte.php?rubrik=1&rechts=3
Click to expand...

Under the heading, "Traditional Series"?

Seems like a mistake to me.
Click to expand...

Yes.... click on the link above that I copied. For instance, the ES models are called ESF ....... is it a 110, 120, 130, 145, etc? Obviously you can review the specs but.... what is it?

And aren't R6, R8, R9 Gibson classifications? I still like to know what the Tokai equivalent is (150, 160, etc). Also gives me a sense of the cost.
 
Diamond said:
JVsearch said:
DaveWW said:
..........interesting - not a yen related model number anywhere. Does this mean we're getting what we asked for? Hope so - but if it's not adopted worldwide ther'll be even more confusion.
Click to expand...

WTF!

LS1-R6, LS1-R8, LS1-R9 if this is a company directive, it looks like they're going for the jugular!
Click to expand...

We all know the LS95S and LS160S are R6 RIs, LS150s are R8 RIs, and the R9 is an R8 with a flame top....it's nothing new...I doubt it's a company directive, just another way of interpreting models.

For example...let's make up some more alternative model names...
an ES135 is a 1959 ES335 RI
an ES160 is a 1962/64 ES335 RI
etc,etc
Click to expand...

Well yes, I doubt it's a company directive either, otherwise you'd have been doing the same thing?

Sorry, but anything without a long tenon isn't a copy of a Gibson Historic, which is where those model designations come from. R8, R9 etc is actually stamped inside the control cavity on a Historic, it's Gibson nomenclature, and it seems strange to me that a Tokai dealer would use it when advertising his product. Firstly, because Tokai don't need to use it they have their own model numbers, and secondly because it could attract the wrong kind of attention. 8)
 
JVsearch said:
Diamond said:
JVsearch said:
DaveWW said:
..........interesting - not a yen related model number anywhere. Does this mean we're getting what we asked for? Hope so - but if it's not adopted worldwide ther'll be even more confusion.
Click to expand...

WTF!

LS1-R6, LS1-R8, LS1-R9 if this is a company directive, it looks like they're going for the jugular!
Click to expand...

We all know the LS95S and LS160S are R6 RIs, LS150s are R8 RIs, and the R9 is an R8 with a flame top....it's nothing new...I doubt it's a company directive, just another way of interpreting models.

For example...let's make up some more alternative model names...
an ES135 is a 1959 ES335 RI
an ES160 is a 1962/64 ES335 RI
etc,etc
Click to expand...

Well yes, I doubt it's a company directive either, otherwise you'd have been doing the same thing?

Sorry, but anything without a long tenon isn't a copy of a Gibson Historic, which is where those model designations come from. R8, R9 etc is actually stamped inside the control cavity on a Historic, it's Gibson nomenclature, and it seems strange to me that a Tokai dealer would use it when advertising his product. Firstly, because Tokai don't need to use it they have their own model numbers, and secondly because it could attract the wrong kind of attention. 8)
Click to expand...

I like what the dealer in question has done, it's a cool idea...and I doubt it will attract any negative attention.
Can you imagine the G company complaining about the use of LS1 - R8...who they going to complain to?
Besides...the dealer in question has IMO done more for the name Tokai outside of Japan than anyone else I can think of, he has my full respect...he's my guru.

Having said that.
I've found that when a guitarist walks into a music store that happens to stock Tokais and he's looking for let's say a GLP, he ends up buying an LS90 or LS95 and reckons it's the best LP he's ever played...and I'm talking high end pro guitarists here.

Sure, the 'historical' specs are important to some guitarists, but
Pro's tend to play the guitar, listen for specific things, how it feels & sounds is the most important factor...and I'll tell you something, the stock setup straight from the factory is the biggest seller of all...that's Tokais trump card.

IMO of course.
 

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