My new '79 Les Paul Reborn LS80

Wow. Ryan is not a very classy seller outside of this forum.

The batlord said:

Wow. Ryan is not a very classy seller outside of this forum.

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So true. Buyers beware! :evil: :evil:

I will amend my statement to him being an extremely rude person. I think that better suits the man.

The batlord said:

I will amend my statement to him being an extremely rude person. I think that better suits the man.

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OK, buddy...

Here is a transcript of the unedited conversation for anyone who's bored enough to read it. He sends me a message through eBay, not TF, and didn't identify himself as a TF member. He then gets pissy pretty quickly, calling into question my class and my integrity as a seller. I'll let you decide...

Him: Any chance at all you will ship to Canada via USPS Priority? Thanks for your time.

Me: No, sorry.

Him: So you will ship overseas for Tokai forum members but cannot ship to the same continent? Interesting. Well that sir, is your loss.

Me: If you would like to negotiate a deal outside of eBay and pay with a bank check (like the TF members would), then feel free to send me your best offer. Otherwise, I'd say it's your loss. I've got 53 watchers right now... thanks again for your interest!

Him: Thanks, but your massive 53 watchers can duke it out. I will purchase from some with a little more class.

Me: I've got an idea for you - go get yourself a nice Epiphone!

Him: Apparently you enjoy being ignorant. I will surely mention that to Tokai Registry fourmites. With the amount of guitars I purchase from Japan I am certainly glad I do not need to rely on sellers like yourself.

Me: Yes, please tell them all! LOL If you purchase from Japan, then why are you bitching and moaning over this Greco? Hmmm...

Him: I am not really bitching and moaning at all - just commenting on your customer service. That, and pointing out that you are willing to sell an item but only if you can remove all buyer protection from the equation. Now that is something to ponder. For the record, I was actually interested in the LS80. The Greco looks rather rough for my tastes.

Me: Buyer protection??? Check my feedback on eBay and tokaiforum and mlpf before you make some douchebag comment about my trustworthiness. I also enjoyed your post on TF as well! "For the record" I'd torch that LS80 before I sold it to you. Don't question my integrity as a seller simply because you don't get what you want. Now move along.

Him: Thank you for proving all of my points with your last email.

All true. I stand by my analysis. The position you take and the language you use is sub par.

Integrity question? Really. I was thinking more along the lines of being a prudent buyer. For instance, attached to all eBay emails:

Marketplace Safety Tip

Keep your money safe - never pay for items with cash or instant money transfer services, such as Western Union or MoneyGram. In the past some sellers have exploited these payment methods in order to defraud buyers, so eBay has banned them from the site.

Received a Second Chance Offer email? Double check that it's genuine: Second Chance Offer emails come directly from eBay and are shown in your My Messages.

Trade safely. Beware of anyone who contacts you about buying or selling outside of eBay. When you trade outside of eBay, you're not able to leave feedback or take advantage of protection programs and case resolution tools available on eBay.Report an inappropriate email.

I simply find it odd that you will sell to a US market via eBay yet require everyone else to forgo the eBay protections. You took that far too personally and responded with a rude and childish reply.

For many sellers (me included) it's not a question of protection, it's a question of fees. I have accepted lower offers from forum members for guitars I have sold than I would have accepted on eBay because of the fees I have to pay eBay. If someone chooses to offer me a lower sum on here & pay by bank transfer (as a few people have done), I will often accept that lower offer. Specially if it's a buyer who I am confident will not mess me around.

I don't think that Ryan comes out of that exchange badly at all.

I can see this will become a popularity contest.

Fees should simply be calculated in your item's price. Why would you not consider that when listing? Simply ask the buyer to split or pay for PayPal fees.

Why in this case would the fees be different for myself or a buyer from the US? There would be no difference.

I guess you could do the above or call someone's corespondence a "douchebag".

The batlord said:

Fees should simply be calculated in your items price. Why would you not consider that when listing? Simply ask the buyer to split or pay for PayPal fees.

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For most of us, they are. So if someone contacts a seller via the forum, they know that a lower offer might be accepted. It's against eBay rules to expect the buyer to pay Paypal fees. Which makes dealing on here seem like a more attractive proposition. If the seller has a good track record, the risk is minimal.

stratman323 said:

The batlord said:

Fees should simply be calculated in your items price. Why would you not consider that when listing? Simply ask the buyer to split or pay for PayPal fees.

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For most of us, they are. So if someone contacts a seller via the forum, they know that a lower offer might be accepted. It's against eBay rules to expect the buyer to pay Paypal fees. Which makes dealing on here seem like a more attractive proposition. If the seller has a good track record, the risk is minimal.

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So its OK to contravene the rules and deal outside of eBay and require a payment against the eBay policy but it is not OK to ask the buyer to help out with PayPal fees if the buyer requests using the service.

In this case, the auction is open to US sellers and PayPal is available - so the fees associated are OK as long as someone from the US is playing them. For everyone else, though, you have to go outside eBay.

Gotcha. That is clear as mud.

The batlord said:

So its OK to contravene the rules and deal outside of eBay and require a payment against the eBay policy but it is not OK to ask the buyer to help out with PayPal fees if the buyer requests using the service.

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I'm speaking for myself here, not Ryan or anyone else. If I sell a guitar, I usually post details on here before listing it on eBay. If somebody chooses to buy it from me via the forum, that's cool, it was advertised here first. That's not breaking eBay rules.

If somebody prefers to buy it via eBay (maybe for the protection that offers), that's cool too, but I will probably not drop my price as low as I would on here because of the eBay & Paypal fees that I am obliged to pay as the seller.

I really don't see what you're making such a fuss about. :roll:

Being called a douchebag has its effects.

That said, I am not fussing - I am responding to your points. Which I have yet to see any real relevance here.

The bottom line is that I did not ask for a lower price. I just wanted to buy his guitar through eBay. No fees were at issue. Why should fees be at issue when the guitar is readily available to US buyers with the same fees associated? Why should it be a different standard?

The batlord said:

I simply find it odd that you will sell to a US market via eBay yet require everyone else to forgo the eBay protections. You took that far too personally and responded with a rude and childish reply.

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You find it odd... really? I didn't realize I was the only seller on eBay who didn't ship certain things out of his/her home country. Before jumping to the conclusion that I lack class and insinuating that am out to rip you off, you should have asked for clarification.

I don't ship USPS because I've had an insured guitar damaged, and my claim was denied. Ask anyone here on the forum who has bought a guitar from me (there are a number of them), whether I ship quickly and pack incredibly well. The unanimous answer will be yes. Frankly, I think USPS stinks.

Also... Shipping USPS Priority (as you requested) has a maximum insurance cap of $675. Case closed. Do you really think I'm shipping a guitar worth $1600 and insuring it for $675? Like I said before, you send me a bank check and I'll ship it any way you like it ? declared for any amount you like. I don't think that's a difficult concept to understand...

The facts are you should have asked some more questions instead of jumping to conclusions about my character. If someone calls my integrity into question, I get a little touchy. I am an honest seller, my reputiation on eBay and here on TF is very important to me.

I stand by my responses wholeheartedly.

Cheers.

First off, I knew you were willing to ship out of your country - you made that clear on this forum. That does not hold water.

Second, you did not know which guitar I was shipping - so the insurance excuse for $1600 is bogus.

Clairification? Why not explain your hesitations as opposed to asking me to go outside eBay?

I have never had an issue with USPS but i have had no less than 3 items damaged via UPS - which means I am helpless and the seller has to conduct the claim.

I stand by my claim that you are a rude, vulgar and ignorant person - well demonstrated by your own post. Your explanations hold little water.

The batlord said:

So its OK to contravene the rules and deal outside of eBay and require a payment against the eBay policy but it is not OK to ask the buyer to help out with PayPal fees if the buyer requests using the service.

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PS

The rules of eBay? Andrew, you asked me to ship to a country I clearly stated in my listing I am not shipping to... and to use a method of shipping other than the one my listing specified.

You see the irony here, right?

That is actually not against any policy I can find. Tell you what. For your clairification, I will report you for your breaches and you report me for mine. Fair enough?

The batlord said:

Fair enough?

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Feel free.

Exactly as I thought. Good day sir.

not taking sides here but a couple of things AFA as the eBay thang ............

I am not allowed to list on the Classified here so I can't offer guitars that stratman aka Mike & others can here so, eBay is my avenue of sales ........

AFA eBay & shipping, I used to offer shipping to the lower 48 US only

I eventually offered shipping to Canada & to European countries, and my sales benifitted from this

I recently had a eBay member from Argentina ask if I could ship a Bacchus jazz bass there, and even tho' I don't offer shiping there I checked & OKed it for him

Too bad for him tho' as a friendly eBayer from the UK was the buyer ...........

I am still not sure where he was going with much of what he said.

If he is perfectly willing to sell his wares on eBay and incur the PayPal and listings fees for American clients I fail to see the difference for verified international clients. The entire fee debate does not have any relevance nor was I lowballing him.

Shipping is certainly a concern with regards to insurance. Again though, the issue here could not have been insurance as the guitar he was quoting on will probably not hit the value mark to be a factor.