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1980 LS-200 - Yahoo JP
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villager
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HYPE = publicize in an exaggerated and often misleading manner..
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MIJvintage
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2984
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIJvintage wrote:
LOL, I love that; I tried to tell a bunch on another forum that any Gibson Les Paul made after 1960 was just another copy & they all just about shizzed on themselves ........... they just could not accept that idea ........


Koubayashi wrote:

To say that a LP made after 60 is a replica or copy is silly.
Smells like trying to justify and hype Japanese "replicas".
And hyping is Japanese "replicas" is a "prominent character" on this forum



If one actually reads my statement it is a reference to Gibson, and Gibson alone
Didn?t mention another maker, or a maker/industry from another country.

How can that be hype? My statement has nothing to do with hype

It?s actually nothing more than a statement on a product that was made from some time in 1952 until/through most of 1960, before production ceased, and comparing that product to a later 'Gibson' branded product

Only comparing old apples to new apples; not apples to oranges ............
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MIJvintage
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2984
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
who is hyping exactly? oh yea of the ''huge'' vintage MIJ collection...

no-one is hyping these guitars, when you compare the quality with modern gibsons its the gibsons that need the hype, I don't see any Japanese makers spending zillions on advertising their new LP every year with the same tired old ''improvements'' like chambering to reduce the weight of cheap wood, or offering some minor cosmetic change to make it ''more accurate'' thus justifying their overpricing.

the old Japanese guitars are simply better wood, better made and better sounding than most new gibsons.

the newer high end Japanese stuff ..ie tokai and navigator, are also better specced guitars than Gibsons..

and thats not ''hype'' its a fact..

and another thing, where do you get the ''10 people in the world interested in an LS-200'' statement from?? ...thats just a made up figure to justify your arguement, you MADE IT UP m8, again the FACT is that I know of at least 20 people looking for their perfect LS-200, and they are just the ones who have asked me for one, not ''in the entire world''..

also you state that ''for a collector its all about the value''

again this is simply not true, I collect Japanese guitars, a lot of them, and the value or the perceived value really has little impact on me, if I wanted to I could collect vintage US guitars, but I don't want to, personally I do not like that marketplace, now thats a true example of ''overhyping'' for sure.. $250000 for a guitar ..slightly ''hyped'' perhaps??



Nicely stated there villager ................
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
I think the confusion is between 'hype' and 'word getting around' two very different things. If everyone went around saying old Japanee guitars are rubbish then the prices would not have escalated the way they have, but the fact is they are great guitars, and don't need hyping.


"They are great guitars..." yet there are several persons on this forum who, one minute have the best guitar ever, and the next minute that best guitar ever is quietly sold off. Just normal guitar comings and goings in the process of finding the right axe? Maybe, or maybe some have not lived up to expectations?

Given the fact that people are now expected to just throw down big money based solely on photos and seller descriptions, the feedback on the guitars is vital, and it forms a fair component of the price. This forum is pretty much the global hub for that feedback, and some of us would just like to be sure that all is as it seems, as there are many choices available for guitar players nowadays.
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIJvintage wrote:
MIJvintage wrote:
LOL, I love that; I tried to tell a bunch on another forum that any Gibson Les Paul made after 1960 was just another copy & they all just about shizzed on themselves ........... they just could not accept that idea ........


Koubayashi wrote:

To say that a LP made after 60 is a replica or copy is silly.
Smells like trying to justify and hype Japanese "replicas".
And hyping is Japanese "replicas" is a "prominent character" on this forum



If one actually reads my statement it is a reference to Gibson, and Gibson alone
Didn?t mention another maker, or a maker/industry from another country.


"...just another copy..." this automatically compares the usual LP clones to the current Gibson crop, what else was it intended to do?
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JohnA
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
JohnA wrote:
I think the confusion is between 'hype' and 'word getting around' two very different things. If everyone went around saying old Japanee guitars are rubbish then the prices would not have escalated the way they have, but the fact is they are great guitars, and don't need hyping.


"They are great guitars..." yet there are several persons on this forum who, one minute have the best guitar ever, and the next minute that best guitar ever is quietly sold off. Just normal guitar comings and goings in the process of finding the right axe? Maybe, or maybe some have not lived up to expectations?

Given the fact that people are now expected to just throw down big money based solely on photos and seller descriptions, the feedback on the guitars is vital, and it forms a fair component of the price. This forum is pretty much the global hub for that feedback, and some of us would just like to be sure that all is as it seems, as there are many choices available for guitar players nowadays.


I think a lot of the buying and selling is just the way things are today. When I was younger I bought a guitar from the local shop and kept it for ten years, now there are a million guitars for sale all over the world that I can spend my evening looking at on the Internet. This fuels desire for somthing 'better', and to fund the new purchase something has to go. I see this behavour with everything I'm interested in, cars, guitars, radio control models it's all just a facet of modern life that like everything else comes with its pros and cons.

Look at the sucess of ebay, it's just human nature to enjoy buying & selling
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MIJvintage
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
MIJvintage wrote:
MIJvintage wrote:
LOL, I love that; I tried to tell a bunch on another forum that any Gibson Les Paul made after 1960 was just another copy & they all just about shizzed on themselves ........... they just could not accept that idea ........


Koubayashi wrote:

To say that a LP made after 60 is a replica or copy is silly.
Smells like trying to justify and hype Japanese "replicas".
And hyping is Japanese "replicas" is a "prominent character" on this forum



If one actually reads my statement it is a reference to Gibson, and Gibson alone
Didn?t mention another maker, or a maker/industry from another country.


"...just another copy..." this automatically compares the usual LP clones to the current Gibson crop, what else was it intended to do?



What I consider a copy of a Les Paul & what someone else considers a copy of a Les Paul could easily be two different ideas.

I consider any post 1960 Gibson Les Paul to be a copy, even if branded as a Gibson, and made by Gibson.

I'm sure I'm in the minority with that veiw but that is my veiw, none the less.

If a R9 wasn't a copy, then it would be fetching $300K plus on the market
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIJvintage wrote:
I consider any post 1960 Gibson Les Paul to be a copy, even if branded as a Gibson, and made by Gibson.


Would you still think that if Gibson hadn't stopped production of the LP for 8 years and the model had continued unchanged? Surely then it would just be a case of an old LP and a new LP?

My own feeling is that Gibson stopped making the proper LP in 1960 and then started making them again in 1992/3.

What about a 54, 57, 62 or 63 new Strat - are they a copy of a 54, 57, 62 or 63 Strat?
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIJvintage wrote:
If a R9 wasn't a copy, then it would be fetching $300K plus on the market


That's a bit silly, it would be impossible for a new LP to fetch $300k!
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Koubayashi
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Joined: 13 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
HYPE = publicize in an exaggerated and often misleading manner..


Many times there is a thinline between definitions.

Frankly, most people have no idea how a 59 FT feels and sounds like.
But yet their LP is just as or nearly as good

Important to add is that there are late 50s LPs that are ^&*( as well.
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Koubayashi
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Joined: 13 Dec 2008
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Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
JohnA wrote:
I think the confusion is between 'hype' and 'word getting around' two very different things. If everyone went around saying old Japanee guitars are rubbish then the prices would not have escalated the way they have, but the fact is they are great guitars, and don't need hyping.


"They are great guitars..." yet there are several persons on this forum who, one minute have the best guitar ever, and the next minute that best guitar ever is quietly sold off. Just normal guitar comings and goings in the process of finding the right axe? Maybe, or maybe some have not lived up to expectations?

Given the fact that people are now expected to just throw down big money based solely on photos and seller descriptions, the feedback on the guitars is vital, and it forms a fair component of the price. This forum is pretty much the global hub for that feedback, and some of us would just like to be sure that all is as it seems, as there are many choices available for guitar players nowadays.


Spot on....

The best Greco I have ever owned or played is my plain top EG600 MC from 1987. The tone in the wood is outstanding. I love it...It will follow me into the grave

But it is not a Super Real EGF so most people here woud not pay any attention to pics of it
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villager
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koubayashi wrote:
villager wrote:
HYPE = publicize in an exaggerated and often misleading manner..


Many times there is a thinline between definitions.

Frankly, most people have no idea how a 59 FT feels and sounds like.
But yet their LP is just as or nearly as good

Important to add is that there are late 50s LPs that are ^&*( as well.


Frankly, most people have no idea what a great guitar feels and sounds like. ....after all, new LP standards are selling in their 1000's and they are not great guitars.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
Koubayashi wrote:
villager wrote:
HYPE = publicize in an exaggerated and often misleading manner..


Many times there is a thinline between definitions.

Frankly, most people have no idea how a 59 FT feels and sounds like.
But yet their LP is just as or nearly as good

Important to add is that there are late 50s LPs that are ^&*( as well.


Frankly, most people have no idea what a great guitar feels and sounds like. ....after all, new LP standards are selling in their 1000's and they are not great guitars.


I think that a guitar will be good if it has the right name on the headstock, cost a bit of money and has the right colour.
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villager
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me too!! thats absolutely the best way to choose.. ..IF you can't play them first...

go for the known brand of quality, at the right model level, then just pick a colour you like, chances are for the old Japanese stuff, you will get a good guitar..
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ochay
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done a side by side comparison with a early eighties LS120's and a 59 les paul and the Tokai with the Dimarzio PAF's sounded better-PERIOD-I have a modest set up(mesa boogie 50 Cal)
I actually disassembled the Gibson and the Tokai side by side just for giggles-the gibson cost me $125K the Tokai cost me $1600-go figure
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