Mick51
Well-known member
http://translate.google.com/transla...ml&langpair=2,1&toolbar=no&lang=JA&c_id=nifty
Looks like it ends around 3-Jan-2010, Japan.
Looks like it ends around 3-Jan-2010, Japan.
1980 LS-200 - Yahoo JP
- Thread starter Mick51
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MIJvintage
Well-known member
been tracking this 1980 LS-200, currently @ 365,000 yen .......... I assume it's the one you're refering to
couldn't get the link you supplied to work ............
here's two links ........
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h137868615
http://translate.google.co.in/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpage8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fh137868615&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en
might be good as a collector but @ 4.2kg, as a player the weight is pushing the limits, IMO ............
couldn't get the link you supplied to work ............
here's two links ........
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h137868615
http://translate.google.co.in/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpage8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fh137868615&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en
might be good as a collector but @ 4.2kg, as a player the weight is pushing the limits, IMO ............
MIJvintage
Well-known member
RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
just goes to demonstrate that the difference in top color, flame, and weight equals real money ................
Koubayashi
Well-known member
MIJvintage said:RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
just goes to demonstrate that the difference in top color, flame, and weight equals real money ................
On an internet auction...No. IRL yes.
It shows that the 550 was a one off and that the sucker paid 550 has lost 200.
Obviously it is not very reasonable that a Tokai is more expensive than a 10 years older Gibson.
There are perhaps 2-3 people in the world prepared to pay those amounts for a Tokai and it is just not enough to keep the prices up.
But there are a billion zillion people prepared to pay that for a Gibson.
Gibson is always a safer bet for the invester.
Koubayashi
Well-known member
RyanC said:
Lesters from 68-74 are as good or even better. And they are real Les Pauls, not copies.
When it comes to vintage value and collectability quality is insignificant.
All those super expensive mint 50s are often times no good players.
Even JVs that are mint are in general bad guitars.
Guitars must be played to be good (to generalise).
Koubayashi
Well-known member
Koubayashi said:
MIJvintage
Well-known member
Koubayashi said:MIJvintage said:RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
just goes to demonstrate that the difference in top color, flame, and weight equals real money ................
On an internet auction...No. IRL yes.
It shows that the 550 was a one off and that the sucker paid 550 has lost 200.
Obviously it is not very reasonable that a Tokai is more expensive than a 10 years older Gibson.
There are perhaps 2-3 people in the world prepared to pay those amounts for a Tokai and it is just not enough to keep the prices up.
But there are a billion zillion people prepared to pay that for a Gibson.
Gibson is always a safer bet for the invester.
an internet auction site is real life tho' :wink:
there were quite a few people bidding on that guitar, and a few were more than willing to pay well over $5K for it, as demonstrated by the bidding.
It ended at over $6K, and TF member wknight2 was the winning bidder; Ed I believe.
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=113546&highlight=#113546
I wouldn't consider the winning bidder a "sucker" at all but rather I would consider him the owner of a very rare guitar, that several others also wanted very badly
There are a billion zillion people out there with a Gibson, and the Gibsons may be a better investment but not everyone that pays big bucks for a guitar is looking at their purchase as an investment.
There is that one person out there that had the long veiw, and he now has a very rare Tokai LS-200, and that is very different guitar than those other billion zillion Gibsons.
How f-ing cool is that? 8)
Personally, I would rather have the rare Tokai that Ed purchased, than a Gibson R8, R9, or R0, even if the Gibson cost less money :wink:
Koubayashi
Well-known member
MIJvintage said:Koubayashi said:MIJvintage said:RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
just goes to demonstrate that the difference in top color, flame, and weight equals real money ................
On an internet auction...No. IRL yes.
It shows that the 550 was a one off and that the sucker paid 550 has lost 200.
Obviously it is not very reasonable that a Tokai is more expensive than a 10 years older Gibson.
There are perhaps 2-3 people in the world prepared to pay those amounts for a Tokai and it is just not enough to keep the prices up.
But there are a billion zillion people prepared to pay that for a Gibson.
Gibson is always a safer bet for the invester.
an internet auction site is real life tho' :wink:
there were quite a few people bidding on that guitar, and a few were more than willing to pay well over $5K for it, as demonstrated by the bidding.
It ended at over $6K, and a TF member was the winning bidder; Ed I believe.
I wouldn't consider the winning bidder a "sucker" at all but rather I would consider him the owner of a very rare guitar, that several others also wanted very badly
There are a billion zillion people out there with a Gibson, and the Gibsons may be a better investment but not everyone that pays big bucks for a guitar is looking at their purchase as an investment.
There is that one person out there that had the long veiw, and he now has a very rare Tokai LS-200, and that is very different guitar than those other billion zillion Gibsons.
How f-ing cool is that? 8)
Personally, I would rather have the rare Tokai that Ed purchased, than a Gibson R8, R9, or R0, even if the Gibson cost less money :wink:
Any normal person who buys an old guitar hopes for more than just a good player :wink: Don't underestimate human greed!
JohnA
Well-known member
$5000 isn't really a lot of money for a 30 year old guitar that is just about top of the range, it certainly will be a good long-term investment, and in the short/medium term will be an absolute joy to play. As MIJ says, the weight and colour contribute to the price and I would certainly rather pay top dollar for a guitar that was the right colour and weight than save a bit on something that was a boat anchor and therefor not really any use as a player.
My brother-in-law 'saved' ?5K on an ex-demo Audi A4 convertable in canary yellow with matching seats!! How I laughed :lol:
My brother-in-law 'saved' ?5K on an ex-demo Audi A4 convertable in canary yellow with matching seats!! How I laughed :lol:
MIJvintage
Well-known member
Koubayashi said:MIJvintage said:Koubayashi said:MIJvintage said:RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
just goes to demonstrate that the difference in top color, flame, and weight equals real money ................
On an internet auction...No. IRL yes.
It shows that the 550 was a one off and that the sucker paid 550 has lost 200.
Obviously it is not very reasonable that a Tokai is more expensive than a 10 years older Gibson.
There are perhaps 2-3 people in the world prepared to pay those amounts for a Tokai and it is just not enough to keep the prices up.
But there are a billion zillion people prepared to pay that for a Gibson.
Gibson is always a safer bet for the invester.
an internet auction site is real life tho' :wink:
there were quite a few people bidding on that guitar, and a few were more than willing to pay well over $5K for it, as demonstrated by the bidding.
It ended at over $6K, and a TF member was the winning bidder; Ed I believe.
I wouldn't consider the winning bidder a "sucker" at all but rather I would consider him the owner of a very rare guitar, that several others also wanted very badly
There are a billion zillion people out there with a Gibson, and the Gibsons may be a better investment but not everyone that pays big bucks for a guitar is looking at their purchase as an investment.
There is that one person out there that had the long veiw, and he now has a very rare Tokai LS-200, and that is very different guitar than those other billion zillion Gibsons.
How f-ing cool is that? 8)
Personally, I would rather have the rare Tokai that Ed purchased, than a Gibson R8, R9, or R0, even if the Gibson cost less money :wink:
Any normal person who buys an old guitar hopes for more than just a good player :wink: Don't underestimate human greed!
I can't speak for Ed but I can speak for myself, and as I stated previously,"There are a billion zillion people out there with a Gibson."
I would much rather have a a rarer Tokai than the 'everyone has one' Gibson, which would make me NOT "any normal person"
I tend to think that Ed might agree .....................
glaister3 said:
Oh yeah, Wittrock and the Burst Bros are hard at work hyping their way to the first million dollar burst!
I have to be honest, if the R0 was cheaper than the LS and I could play it first I would probably buy that over an unknown old guitar, but if I could audition both of them side by side I'd take the one I liked best... which could be one or the other, you just don't know until you play them.
I risked about $1000 on a 2 year old Momose Strat, that's about as risky as I get at my current wealth level.
Koubayashi
Well-known member
JVsearch said:
Same here...I think there are a lot of people here hyping Japanese guitars
RyanC said:Ended at 365K - a veritable bargain compare to the 551K example a couple months ago.
I wonder if losing one big player (the guy who bought the earlier guitar for 551K yen) from the bidding was enough to slow things down a bit on this one? The condition and color also seem to be different between the guitars although they are both very nice looking.
I agree with the thoughts above that it is a pretty narrow market for these very high end Tokai guitars. A couple of people dropping out or joining in to the bidding for any given piece could have a big impact on price.
The days of picking up an LS-200 for a sleeper price look to be over!
I saw that LS200. If I wanted another great guitar to play, I would have bought it in a heartbeat.
Here are my thoughts:
I passed, because it had a lot more wear than the one I picked up previously, and the top to me appeared to be nothing special. The top on the one I picked up is special, I've not seen another like it in terms of color and flame.
Gibsons possibly are a safer bet for an investor (assuming 50s and some 60s instruments, but those are priced way over a LS200, and the price of a 59 has dropped by six figures compared to a few years ago), but there were also over 100 bids on the guitar I bought, significantly more than the one that just sold.
If I wanted to sell it tomorrow, I could get back what I paid or even more, because Gibsons are for sale every day, but LS200s, in A+ shape, with a special top, come up for sale maybe once a year. I am aware of LS200s that sold for much more than the one I picked up.
Gibson's list price on a Bloomfield Les Paul is around $14,000. I have a friend who bought one, and he loves it. For me, I'd rather have the 30 year old wood.
A new Les Paul Custom can be purchased somewhere around $3800. Next year, that guitar is worth around $2200 because it's used. A LS200 will be worth the same or more than it is today. So in my mind, that makes it a better investment than the Gibson.
In addition, loads of guitar players have Gibsons, not many have Tokais or other MIJ. It's sad; a lot of people are ignorant, or prejudiced, against MIJ guitars. This forum is a wonderful place, because people can learn about these great instruments, compare features and price, and make a more informed decision about what type of guitar is right for them.
A lot of us read other forums, and we see tons of people complaining about the quality of the big-name guitars. In my experience, I've rarely if ever seen anyone complain about the quality of a mid to high level MIJ. That alone is reason enough for me to prefer the MIJs.
Again, if I wanted a great guitar to play, I would have bought the LS200 that sold recently. As it is, I have too many guitars, and I've been trying, if possible, to just pick up instruments that are in terrific shape. They will always hold their value better.
At a typical guitar show, there are hundreds of guitars selling for $7000 to $30,000 and up, and there is always lots of buying and selling taking place. There is no shortage of people who will pay big $$ for a guitar, but most of them are picking them up as investments, hoping for a bigger rate of return on their money than a Bank CD at 3% will give them (historically, well chosen guitars have been on average over 10%). Plus, you can rock out on your guitar, you can't do that with a Bank CD!
A really cool high end MIJ is more than an investment: it's a chance to own some of the best guitars built, with 30 year old wood, that not everyone and their cousin plays on stage, and are generally available for less money than a new, name-brand guitar is.
Just my 2 cents...
Ed
Here are my thoughts:
I passed, because it had a lot more wear than the one I picked up previously, and the top to me appeared to be nothing special. The top on the one I picked up is special, I've not seen another like it in terms of color and flame.
Gibsons possibly are a safer bet for an investor (assuming 50s and some 60s instruments, but those are priced way over a LS200, and the price of a 59 has dropped by six figures compared to a few years ago), but there were also over 100 bids on the guitar I bought, significantly more than the one that just sold.
If I wanted to sell it tomorrow, I could get back what I paid or even more, because Gibsons are for sale every day, but LS200s, in A+ shape, with a special top, come up for sale maybe once a year. I am aware of LS200s that sold for much more than the one I picked up.
Gibson's list price on a Bloomfield Les Paul is around $14,000. I have a friend who bought one, and he loves it. For me, I'd rather have the 30 year old wood.
A new Les Paul Custom can be purchased somewhere around $3800. Next year, that guitar is worth around $2200 because it's used. A LS200 will be worth the same or more than it is today. So in my mind, that makes it a better investment than the Gibson.
In addition, loads of guitar players have Gibsons, not many have Tokais or other MIJ. It's sad; a lot of people are ignorant, or prejudiced, against MIJ guitars. This forum is a wonderful place, because people can learn about these great instruments, compare features and price, and make a more informed decision about what type of guitar is right for them.
A lot of us read other forums, and we see tons of people complaining about the quality of the big-name guitars. In my experience, I've rarely if ever seen anyone complain about the quality of a mid to high level MIJ. That alone is reason enough for me to prefer the MIJs.
Again, if I wanted a great guitar to play, I would have bought the LS200 that sold recently. As it is, I have too many guitars, and I've been trying, if possible, to just pick up instruments that are in terrific shape. They will always hold their value better.
At a typical guitar show, there are hundreds of guitars selling for $7000 to $30,000 and up, and there is always lots of buying and selling taking place. There is no shortage of people who will pay big $$ for a guitar, but most of them are picking them up as investments, hoping for a bigger rate of return on their money than a Bank CD at 3% will give them (historically, well chosen guitars have been on average over 10%). Plus, you can rock out on your guitar, you can't do that with a Bank CD!
A really cool high end MIJ is more than an investment: it's a chance to own some of the best guitars built, with 30 year old wood, that not everyone and their cousin plays on stage, and are generally available for less money than a new, name-brand guitar is.
Just my 2 cents...
Ed
MIJvintage
Well-known member
Hi Ed, that's pretty much what I said but with less words :lol: .................
