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Bacchus Strat Information now resides on another forum
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greco_burst
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Bacchus Strat Information now resides on another forum Reply with quote

DELETED......

THIS INFORMATION CAN BE READ ON ANOTHER FORUM, WHERE THE TRANSLATOR NOW RESIDES.... , AND IS UPDATED

THANK YOU!


Last edited by greco_burst on Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:02 pm; edited 5 times in total
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one!

This is good information, and confirms what I suspected - that most of the higher Japanese clones have a poly sealer coat then a nitro finish, like Fender USA. I have no problem with this, except where people are being sold something as having a nitro finish when it is only the top coat.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a NOS vintage series telecaster, the sticker on the scratchplate said "All Lacquer Finish"
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Diodibuh
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great post, but I'm confused with that "begining" and "beginning" logo. I have two BST, tought one was before 2000 and one after (according to serials, it's quite a big difference btw both). But they bot have "begining" in logo. Also I don't really understand that string retainer stuff - can someone explain this please?
thank you
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greco_burst
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
I bought a NOS vintage series telecaster, the sticker on the scratchplate said "All Lacquer Finish"


The only sticker from Bacchus i have seen, which is a round yellow one... said 'LACQUER FINISH' only.
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greco_burst
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diodibuh wrote:
great post, but I'm confused with that "begining" and "beginning" logo. I have two BST, tought one was before 2000 and one after (according to serials, it's quite a big difference btw both). But they bot have "begining" in logo. Also I don't really understand that string retainer stuff - can someone explain this please?
thank you


Thanks!
According to the information received from Deviser, If both your guitars have 'begining' then they would be the early years model vintage series. What sort of string retainer on the headstock is yours..wing or round?

As for Serial numbers, Deviser replied to my question about it, and they said they did not keep records of what serial numbers were allocated to which year, so, it is not possible to ID which year from the serial number.

Mick
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnA wrote:
I bought a NOS vintage series telecaster, the sticker on the scratchplate said "All Lacquer Finish"


This may very well mean that your Tele was a total lacquer finish!
My point is that when it just says lacquer finish, this would mean a lacquer top coat only. For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker.

I have never seen a sticker like that either, but then I've never bought a brand new Vintage Series Bacchus guitar! My Duke had "Lacquer Finish" on the sticker like those mentioned by greco_burst.

My belief is that most would have been lacquer over poly as per greco's info, but it's not clear what the story is for the transition and later year models, as the finish is only mentioned in regard to the early years?
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youami
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVsearch wrote:
For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker.


Not quite true. The Traditional series (DS-100) says "lacquer finish top", the Vintage Standard (DS-200) series says "all lacquer" and the Vintage Pro series (DS-250/80) says "unsealed all lacquer". So, I'm guessing that the Traditional have a poly undercoat, Vintage Standard sealed with Fullerplast or similar (like the old Fenders) then nitro over that and the Vintage Pro unsealed nitro.
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JohnA
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been looking for a pic of the sticker, I was sure I took one, but afraid I can't find it I seemed to remember it saying 'all lacquer finish' but I could be wrong!
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youami wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
For example, the Seymour Duncan clones (now discontinued) specified a lacquer top coat over poly for all their guitars except for the top model (DS-250/280 depending on year) which stated "all lacquer" finish like your sticker.


Not quite true. The Traditional series (DS-100) says "lacquer finish top", the Vintage Standard (DS-200) series says "all lacquer" and the Vintage Pro series (DS-250/80) says "unsealed all lacquer". So, I'm guessing that the Traditional have a poly undercoat, Vintage Standard sealed with Fullerplast or similar (like the old Fenders) then nitro over that and the Vintage Pro unsealed nitro.


Fullerplast is poly, so what's the diff?

But the point is that you have to go up to the 250K yen range to get a total lacquer finish?
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youami
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, displaying my ignorance.

So, if Fullerplast is poly, then the old Fenders were nitro top-coats only too? So who cares if it's only a nitro top-coat on Bacchi, Duncans etc? It's the same as Fender used to do things.

Also, why would ESP make the distinction between "Lacquer Topcoat", "All Lacquer" and "Unsealed Lacquer"? Are the first two options the same?

I'm confused.
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

youami wrote:
Once again, displaying my ignorance.

So, if Fullerplast is poly, then the old Fenders were nitro top-coats only too? So who cares if it's only a nitro top-coat on Bacchi, Duncans etc? It's the same as Fender used to do things.

Also, why would ESP make the distinction between "Lacquer Topcoat", "All Lacquer" and "Unsealed Lacquer"? Are the first two options the same?

I'm confused.


So am I!

It occurred to me that "Unsealed Lacquer" might mean there was no base or sealer coat used at all, which means they must have sanded that body down so fine that a few colour and clear coats was enough to get a good finish?

Fender started using Fullerplast in 1963, and the stuff that was used on the early guitars is even more of a hazy mess of opinion and personal agendas, with some saying it was another poly product and some saying it was nitro.

Amongst the hyperbole there is a bit of info here:
http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp

What is obvious from this is that the use of a poly sealer/base coat allowed the colour and clear coats to be much thinner because they didn't soak into the wood, and I would have thought this was a good thing? People seem to think that the thinner the finish the better, irrespective of what type of finish it is - seems pretty reasonable to me.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear, back to this old story again! Fullerplast is not poly! Has anyone who is claiming that ever tried an old Fender? Totally different feel, & the wear pattern is totally different. Modern Custom Shop vintage copies are all nitro, early 80s USRIs are all nitro, later ones had a poly sealant coat. Try both & the difference is very apparent.

The newer USRIs have a similar feel to my ST80 - nitro top coat over poly. My ES130 & TE120 don't even feel like nitro at all, even though they're supposed to be.

With regard to the dating information at the top of the page, I find that hard to believe as it contradicts everything we have previously been told about Bacchi. My BST-64V has a serial number beginning 01, which I was told made it a 2001 model, but it says "begining" on the headstock. I remain to be convinced that anything in this post is true.

Mike
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greco_burst
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stratman323 wrote:

With regard to the dating information at the top of the page, I find that hard to believe as it contradicts everything we have previously been told about Bacchi. My BST-64V has a serial number beginning 01, which I was told made it a 2001 model, but it says "begining" on the headstock. I remain to be convinced that anything in this post is true.

Mike


Well, you have been misinformed, BST64V were dropped before 2000, the BST62 started in around 2000, as for serial numbers who the heck told you a 01xxx serial was for 2001?

As i stated, I have communicated with Deviser, and asked questions about their products, and received the reply that was kindly translated.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, previous information on these pages came mainly from MIJVintage, who I regard as quite a reliable source of information on Bacchi. Now you're turning all that he said on it's head. For example, isn't it reasonable to assume that a Strat with a serial number beginning 01 is from 2001?

Unfortunately Mick, you have spread misinformation on here before (just "for a laugh" regarding SS60s, remember?), so I am not inclined to believe you when you tell me that everything we have previously been told is wrong. Where did all the previous "wrong" information come from? And why should we believe you rather than the other, earlier sources?
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