Z Clones?

Some of you know me as Declan from Japanaxe, now also Declan from RD Pickups. apologies for jumping on the thread, this was not the way I had intended to let the tokai forum know about our new business. (Ned you have an email re advertising)

Firstly we do not do DRY Z Clones. Yes... the VR-P1, and indeed our whole approach to developing our pickups was "initially based on" the DRY Z's in my EGF 1200. This was our yard stick, our marker of quality to meet and beat if you will.

We didn't have a bucket of PAF's to analyse and take apart.. We went for the crazy and somewhat more affordable approach of using our ears, and some back to basics science.

Our intention was to wind some pickups for personal use until we found a formula that really worked.

So, definately NOT a DRY-Z "Clone"...... HOWEVER!!!!

The P1's are in the same ballpark, they differ in that the P1's are naturally a little brighter, this can be EQ'ed back a little to match if thats what you want. The P1's react to your playing in a similar way to the DRY-Zs, notes bloom and sustain in a similar way and they both have a vintage vibe and clarity, .... even on the neck with the tone rolled back.

They share traits, but they have a different charachter.In fact every P1 we wind is a little bit different than the last one we wound as bobbin tension and pattern are delivered by hand. To the best of my knowledge, some of the materials we are using, were never used in DRY-Z or PAF's for that matter.

John, you mentioned publishing specs, we have decided not to do that for various reasons, but mainly as they are meaningless unless we told you the whole complete story, unfortunately that would involve revealing way too much. I will give one example, we don't use 42AWG, we use something very close as it compensates for other non-standard materials we use.

Happy to answer any questions, and as with all our pickups, but judge them on their own merit, not a DRY-Z or PAF reproduction, I am not playing the quality down either..... For anyone that buys a set, If they don't absolutely knock your socks off, then I want you to send them back to me and I will happily refund you, .... no-one has asked for a refund yet!

Thanks for reading folks.

Declan
RD Pickups

I really really 8) like the idea of the VR-P2 set; sounds like a set that I would love to try out

"VR-P2 Alnico 5/2, 8.1k bridge, 7.8k neck
A little more growl and bite than the VR-P1 while retaining all the definition and clarity. Play open chords even under high gain and each string will still ring out true and clear. The P2 was developed to offer the perfect compromise, We really like the combination of an A5 Bridge and an A2 neck in this set."

Both of my DRY Z sets seem to be lacking something in the bridge positions; the neck pups are awesome but the bridge pups just don't seem to be hot enough :-? .................

move them closer to the strings.... big difference.. HOT

villager said:

move them closer to the strings.... big difference.. HOT

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Yeh, you can, Mark. But, I have a set in an EGC-1000, and I have to set the p/up height based on the timbre and voicing, attack characteristics, etc that I want; and adjust polepiece height for string balance.

The neck is great. Not perfect - not sure that exists, although I have a couple sets that come close - but very, very nice. Timbre, voicing, power, etc. I have good voicing from the bridge p/up, but I can't get the power out of it. If I move it closer, I get the power increase, but the voicing loses timbre. I don't want it hotter - just more winds - it would take a combination of slightly more winds, and slightly stronger magnet.. Black art.

Ultimately, much of it is subjective. We don't want, or expect, to hear exactly the same thing. So, maybe my bridge Dry-Z p/up was built just one hour too late! Or, the wrong phase of the moon.

Hi Declan

Thanks for chipping in, when I said knowing the specs would be interesting, I didn't mean lets see if he's making them 'properly' or anything, I'm not a snob who wouldn't buy a pickup unless it had 50 year old maple spacers :wink:

I'm all for buying British as well, especially at that price! I'll go and count my pennies and be in touch

JohnA said:

Hi Declan

Thanks for chipping in, when I said knowing the specs would be interesting, I didn't mean lets see if he's making them 'properly' or anything, I'm not a snob whou wouldn't buy a pickup unless it had 50 yaer old maple spacers :wink:

I'm all for buying british as well, especially at that price! I'll go and count my pennies and be in touch

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Believe me john you will not be disapointed

JohnA said:

I didn't mean lets see if he's making them 'properly' or anything, I'm not a snob who wouldn't buy a pickup unless it had 50 year old maple spacers :wink:

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didn't think that for a minute John, just don't want a "clone" rumour starting, i think a slight modification to the wording on the website would also be in order. I want these to stand on their own merit. No expensive vintage PUPs had to die for us to come up with the VR's

MIJVINTAGE, how about an A8 bridge and an A3 neck if you really want a contrast !!!! don't laugh, you would be surprised!!

i will let the customers judge our pickups, but I guess one advantage we have over PAF & DRY Z for that matter is if you like them, we can do the diet version, the low fat version, the low sugar and the full fat full cream with chocolate chip on the top version. All use the same material, construction and have the same underlying tonal quality.

Mick, .... Definately a black art, we only wind new pickups on a full moon, each one requiring the sacrifice of several chickens and a rooster!

Barburny.... THANKS!!!

Mark, .... we will convert you !!!!

I have a 7.5K U-1000 A8 in the neck and a 13K DiMarzio A5 in the bridge in my Greco and they work pretty well together.

The U-1000 in the neck is a bit on the bright side but not that much and the DiMarzio has a fair bit of drive but is still a bit PAF like and it's an interesting combination.

I've read here and other places in the past (I think) that Dry-Z pickups might have used AlNiCo 4. Any comments?

No Idea on the Alnico 4 in DRY Z's I am afraid,

Different magnet suppliers have different formulas for their magnets so an A5 from supplier A may have more in common tonally with Supplier B's A4 than their A5.

The main useful charachteistic of any magnet is to ensure the highs get through on hot pickups and that it isn't over emphasised on lower output pickups, so you will see A3 (mainly) on our lower output PUPs and A5 or A8 on the hot ones. An A3 in a 8k pickup can sound a little mushy.

If you have a selection of magnets and fancy a bit of surgery it is a very worthwhile experiment, though I wouldn't get too hung up on which magnet was used in any particular pickup as it is only one part of a much larger picture

villager said:

seriously, I have tried all the boutique guys and only a few come close..

but it depends so much on the guitar...

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I'd love to know which ones you've tried, and how they fared against each other and the Dry-Zs. Also did you compare them using high gain or low gain? I learned to stop listening to most of the pickup comparisons on TheLesPaul forum when I figured out that most of these guys are comparing them in a high gain setting. Thats almost worthless to me. With high-gain metal tones you are hearing the amps more than the pickups!

The best boutique ones that I've heard so far are the Holmes (anyone know how the Holmes MIJ pickups compare to the MI USA Holmes?), the Stephens Design for the Peter Green tones, and the WCR Betset (supposed to be based on Dickey Betts sound I believe, but sound more Beano to me).

I have some Harmonic-Designs and some Sheptones. Both are in cheapy guitars. The Harmonic-Designs are in a late '70s Cortez (MIJ) Black LP Custom clone, and the Sheptones are in a Squier Esprit (copy of the $4k Fender Elite & Robben Ford guitars). The Sheptones sound good, but not mind-blowing or anything. Probably more to do with the guitar though.

I took the plunge and ordered a set of P1's just before Christmas, and they've been in my LS80 Goldtop for about a month now. They are without a doubt the nicest pickups I've played! My previous faves were Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays, closely followed by some Florence Voodoo '59's, but neither of these touch the P1's IMO. They are a lowish output pickup, the clean sound is beautiful, loads of nice overtones, in some ways more like a P90 than the typical flat response of a 'bucker.

Add a touch of gain and they bloom in the way a good PAF should, very touch sensitive and sing with harmonic feedback exactly when you want them too. At highish gain settings they are still nicely controlled, no microphonic feedback at all, and the string definition is still there.

My only issue is whether to go for the P0's or P2's next time

Its great to know that John.
Like you I have the same problem on where to go next.
I think I will try some P3s but just love the P1s so much

FWIW, I wound up with a pair from Motor City Pickups.

I'm not sure how they compare with the "Z"s but I couldn't be more pleased with
how close Wade came to the verbiage I spewed trying to describe what I wanted... 8)

I thought about giving the folks in barburny's link a go, but decided to stay closer to home...

Thanks John & Murray,

you both know that repeat buyers get serious discount, we also throw in two dancing girls to accompany you when you are playing on stage, these will help draw away some of the attention from the pickups and allow you to leave any venue without being mugged.

Claudel, we will get you next time :wink:

Declan