LS 150

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Mole Man said:
mudbone said:
I think it's insane that it's so difficult to identify these guitar with any certainty given the huge differences in price. Why don't Tokai make it easy ?

Anyhow, due to these uncertainties and the attitude of the people in the shop I've decided to give it a miss. Although it played very well the pickups were really really bad. The neck pickup sounded as sharp as most bridge pick ups so you can imagine what the bridge pickup sounded like.

Thanks for all your help but I think I'll be avoiding these guitars - Tokais are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.
Click to expand...

Sorry, mudbone, I've just read your post above. Okay, fair enough but someone else will doubtless snap it up now that you've been kind enough to bring the guitar to our attention. Please also bear in mind that all guitar brands are variable, but I find Tokai to be amongst the most consistent, quality wise.
Click to expand...

Hi mudbone,

Contacted the shop (Guitar Junction in Worthing, UK) and they have decided to take down the "LS150" listing and inform the previous buyer (who was sold the guitar as a LS150 and paid ?1,000 for it - OUCH)!!! No bad attitude from the shop staff encountered either. Perhaps it is you who has the attitude?

Best regards,
Darren
 
Hi Moleman,

I can get an attitude sometimes but in this case it was in response to the way things went in the shop. The original conversation I had went something like this (and this is before I knew about the one piece/two piece back issue):

Me: 'I'm interested in the Tokai but I'm wondering how you can tell it's a 150 as opposed to some other model as there is nothing visible on the guitar that says it's a 150'

Shop Guy: 'You can tell by the appointments on the guitar'

Me: 'Okay, what am I looking at that indicates it's a 150?'

Shop Guy: 'The pickups, the general construction'

Me: 'How do they differ in appearance from the other Love Rock models?'

Shop Guy: 'Well actually it's one of those things where you JUST HAVE TO KNOW'

Me (started to get pissed off): 'What is it that you know that I don't that tells YOU that it's a 150?'

Shop guy(running out of ********): 'You'd have to ask one of the other guys'

Did he really think that I'd buy the guitar on the basis of some arcane knowledge he claimed to possess but was incapable of describing ?

Also, this shop boasts of it's expertise. I knew nothing about Tokais but it took me 5 minutes on the internet to find out that something was wrong. Why couldn't they do this ? It's not exactly a busy shop and there's plenty of staff that sit around playing guitars.

Another also - I believe they have a duty to find out if the goods they are selling are what they are being sold as. To say that they simply take the word of whoever they got the guitar from is not acceptable.

I don't think my attitude is unreasonable.

If you disagree please tell me where I went wrong.
 
marcusnieman said:
Diamond said:
I wonder how many guys who criticize certain pickups are actually testing them at gigging volume in a live situation?
Click to expand...

Not eveyone gigs. The play home volume levels using effects to achieve gig like response from their amps at low volume.

You can't play a Super Reverb cranked up to gig level 6 volume in a bedroom or office.

A pickup is going to be judged when played at the level you are accustomed to.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

But, we cant criticise a Super Reverb if we're playing it in our bedrooms with the volume on 2, because it's designed to sound best at gig level volumes.
Similar story with pickups, what might sound too bright and harsh in our bedrooms might be perfect in a high volume live situation cutting through the mix.
 
Diamond said:
marcusnieman said:
Diamond said:
I wonder how many guys who criticize certain pickups are actually testing them at gigging volume in a live situation?
Click to expand...

Not eveyone gigs. The play home volume levels using effects to achieve gig like response from their amps at low volume.

You can't play a Super Reverb cranked up to gig level 6 volume in a bedroom or office.

A pickup is going to be judged when played at the level you are accustomed to.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

But, we cant criticise a Super Reverb if we're playing it in our bedrooms with the volume on 2, because it's designed to sound best at gig level volumes.
Similar story with pickups, what might sound too bright and harsh in our bedrooms might be perfect in a high volume live situation cutting through the mix.
Click to expand...

Fair enough... agreed as well. A Super does sound like ***** if it's not cranked up enough to bake the tubes.
 
Mole Man said:
Mole Man said:
mudbone said:
I think it's insane that it's so difficult to identify these guitar with any certainty given the huge differences in price. Why don't Tokai make it easy ?

Anyhow, due to these uncertainties and the attitude of the people in the shop I've decided to give it a miss. Although it played very well the pickups were really really bad. The neck pickup sounded as sharp as most bridge pick ups so you can imagine what the bridge pickup sounded like.

Thanks for all your help but I think I'll be avoiding these guitars - Tokais are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.
Click to expand...

Sorry, mudbone, I've just read your post above. Okay, fair enough but someone else will doubtless snap it up now that you've been kind enough to bring the guitar to our attention. Please also bear in mind that all guitar brands are variable, but I find Tokai to be amongst the most consistent, quality wise.
Click to expand...

Hi mudbone,

Contacted the shop (Guitar Junction in Worthing, UK) and they have decided to take down the "LS150" listing and inform the previous buyer (who was sold the guitar as a LS150 and paid ?1,000 for it - OUCH)!!! No bad attitude from the shop staff encountered either. Perhaps it is you who has the attitude?

Best regards,
Darren
Click to expand...

Very difficult to know in these circumstances who might have an attitude to who, when the rest of us weren't there, so I'll not give an opinion on that.

What I do find easy to know though is I have been given crappy, ill-informed advice and detail in musical instrument shops so often that I have almost totally given up asking anything. I was particularly badly informed about a Tokai - not that it put me off the brand, but it was information that was significantly in error for the particular guitar.

I play an instrument in a shop now and research it later. I don't know why people cannot bring themseves to admit they don't know the answer to a question - I'd be more impressed with the honesty of not knowing than finding out later I've been misled.

Maybe I've just been unlucky with shops local to me. :(

I would agree strongly that in my (admittedly limited) experience that genuine Tokai are very consistent quality wise - and it is certainly a commonly seen comment about them from those with a wide experience. Makes on-line purchasing a much more acceptable option for the Tokai brand than most others. :)
 
I'm with mudbone - that exchange laid out in the above post is like something from the dark ages, but they are allowed to be crap.

Unfortunately the only thing that can be done to them is not to buy there, but yeah the bit about them not knowing what they are selling really illustrates just how wrong some businesses are. :(
 
Retail stores are unbelievable, and most guys who work there are the laziest dudes I've ever seen.

I carried 15 guitars one by one on my own into one store, from the parking lot about 80 yards away from the store
So I carry in the first one and they're all sitting there doing nothing.
No problem, I walk out, go fetch no 2 and I do the same thing, carry it into the store...and they're still sitting there doing nothing, just watching me.
Now the sweat is pouring down my face and I'm tiring, quickly.
Not one of them offered to help me, they sat and watched as I went backwards and forwards carrying in the guitars.

When I finally left they offered to pack the guitars back into the boxes for me, I said, PLEASE DON'T, let me do it because I wanted each guitar back in the same/correct box.
Of course they ignored me and packed each guitar back into the wrong boxes.
However, they then proceeded to watch me carry the guitars back to my car, didn't offer to help.
When I got back to the storeroom I had to unpack all the guitars and repack them back into their correct boxes.

Favourite comment of the day on that day...from a young salesman in the store...
" Are these guitars copies of Epiphones?".
 
mudbone said:
Hi Moleman,

I can get an attitude sometimes but in this case it was in response to the way things went in the shop. The original conversation I had went something like this (and this is before I knew about the one piece/two piece back issue):

Me: 'I'm interested in the Tokai but I'm wondering how you can tell it's a 150 as opposed to some other model as there is nothing visible on the guitar that says it's a 150'

Shop Guy: 'You can tell by the appointments on the guitar'

Me: 'Okay, what am I looking at that indicates it's a 150?'

Shop Guy: 'The pickups, the general construction'

Me: 'How do they differ in appearance from the other Love Rock models?'

Shop Guy: 'Well actually it's one of those things where you JUST HAVE TO KNOW'

Me (started to get pissed off): 'What is it that you know that I don't that tells YOU that it's a 150?'

Shop guy(running out of ********): 'You'd have to ask one of the other guys'

Did he really think that I'd buy the guitar on the basis of some arcane knowledge he claimed to possess but was incapable of describing ?

Also, this shop boasts of it's expertise. I knew nothing about Tokais but it took me 5 minutes on the internet to find out that something was wrong. Why couldn't they do this ? It's not exactly a busy shop and there's plenty of staff that sit around playing guitars.

Another also - I believe they have a duty to find out if the goods they are selling are what they are being sold as. To say that they simply take the word of whoever they got the guitar from is not acceptable.

I don't think my attitude is unreasonable.

If you disagree please tell me where I went wrong.
Click to expand...


Hi mudbone,

All points noted and agreed. Please accept my sincere apologies here.

I'm actually pretty shocked reading your post above, the shop guy quite obviously didn't have a clue but (not untypically) couldn't bing himself to admit as much. Never been to this store myself but note that they stock a lot of really quite high end guitars...

Oh well! Onwards and upwards and don't look down!!

Best regards,
Darren
 
Diamond said:
Retail stores are unbelievable, and most guys who work there are the laziest dudes I've ever seen.

I carried 15 guitars one by one on my own into one store, from the parking lot about 80 yards away from the store
So I carry in the first one and they're all sitting there doing nothing.
No problem, I walk out, go fetch no 2 and I do the same thing, carry it into the store...and they're still sitting there doing nothing, just watching me.
Now the sweat is pouring down my face and I'm tiring, quickly.
Not one of them offered to help me, they sat and watched as I went backwards and forwards carrying in the guitars.

When I finally left they offered to pack the guitars back into the boxes for me, I said, PLEASE DON'T, let me do it because I wanted each guitar back in the same/correct box.
Of course they ignored me and packed each guitar back into the wrong boxes.
However, they then proceeded to watch me carry the guitars back to my car, didn't offer to help.
When I got back to the storeroom I had to unpack all the guitars and repack them back into their correct boxes.

Favourite comment of the day on that day...from a young salesman in the store...
" Are these guitars copies of Epiphones?".
Click to expand...

Yeah. South African guitar stores. They were much more helpful and less arrogant - at the same time more knowledgeable - in London. In SA, they seem to think that working in a guitar store is half way to being a rock star.

I've walked out of stores without getting what I came for because 15mins later nobody had deigned to ask me why I was standing expectantly at the counter. I'm older now, and would make them wear their asses for a hat for that kind of thing. Still, the worst retail employees in the country - even including Spar staff in Mthatha :).

And yes, a lot of people walking into the shop know more than the swaggering "experts" who've never heard of Tokai.
 
singemonkey said:
Yeah. South African guitar stores. They were much more helpful and less arrogant - at the same time more knowledgeable - in London.
Click to expand...


Jeez, if yours are worse than ours are, you really do have problems! My sympathies.

Mike
 
LOL

Mike - We have amazing music stores down here in SA, but when you visit one rather help yourself than get someone who works in the store to help you. :)

Alan - this is Andy McGibbons guitar world, note the two LS150s displayed in front of 3 PRS guitars, an Ibanez prestige, and a Taylor....the 150s are where they deserve to be, in the front. :)

tokaisatandymcgibbons.jpg
 
BlueThird said:
Hey, Diamond, it's not just Axchisler that wants to know what the story is with the crazy banjo ??I wanna know to! Don't forget to ask!
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's one fugly electric banjo. If I ever got an electric banjo, I'd want it to be the same basic shape as an acoustic. I mean, why does it need horns for Pete's sake?

@Diamond: Gibson will rear it's ugly head again. Move fast so that South Africans are no longer interested when they decide to return. :D
 
This guitar has reappeared in the shop only they're now describing it as a Love Rock Heritage Dark Cherry and the price has dropped by about ?150. A good deal or not ?
 
mudbone said:
This guitar has reappeared in the shop only they're now describing it as a Love Rock Heritage Dark Cherry and the price has dropped by about ?150. A good deal or not ?
Click to expand...

IMHO, if you like the guitar, and it seems like a good deal to YOU, then buy it. If you don't feel comfortable about it, don't. If the pickups don't sound great, as you said, well that's an easy fix, especially considering you're going to get it for 150 less! I'm still a little curious about the lack of knowledge about it - any chance of them pulling the front pickup and allowing you to have a look?

It most definitely is NOT an '05 LS-150 as they absolutely have a 1-piece back and a flame-top.

It most definitely is NOT an '05 LS-135 as they also have a 1-piece back but a plain top.

As said earlier, it's most likely that it's an LS-90 - 125. Still a good guitar by all means, but is it what you want? Nothing anyone says on the internet is going to give you (or take away) that queasy feeling you get when you walk in a shop and see the great find that you want. If you got the feeling, I'd say take it! If not, wait for the next one. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Jason
 

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