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LP clones - Tokai, vs. Epi Elitist vs. Edwards vs. Greco?
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1655
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guitarists are weird creatures.
They don't think about resale value when they buy a $15,000 car, but they think about resale value when they buy a $1000 guitar.

Meanwhile the car loses $1000 in value the minute you drive it out the showroom, and drops in value daily after you've bought it.
Eventually it lands up on a scrapheap or for sale in a "Used" car lot for 10% of it's original value, meanwhile you're still playing the $1000 guitar.
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RyanC
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jzucker wrote:
Why? Resale value.


My bad. I was basing my comment off of build quality and playability of the instrument.

FWIW, I haven't lost money selling vintage MIJ's.
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villager
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me 2 ..

but resale value for MIJ is not an issue...
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JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diamond wrote:
In 1977 Tokais were copies, today they're replicas, they have a reputation that's taken 40 years to establish...I'd hardly call that a copy.


They have a mahogany neck and body, 18 degree headstock angle, maple top, tune-o-matic bridge with stop tail piece, 2 humbuckers with 3 way switching plus volume and tone for each pickup. I wonder where they got the idea for that? Oh yeah, they also look identical to a Gibson LP!

Replicas, clones copies - it's all the same thing.

However, they have a top reputation as a quality guitar builder that is all their own, but they do primarily produce the designs of others.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diamond wrote:
Guitarists are weird creatures.
They don't think about resale value when they buy a $15,000 car, but they think about resale value when they buy a $1000 guitar.

Meanwhile the car loses $1000 in value the minute you drive it out the showroom, and drops in value daily after you've bought it.
Eventually it lands up on a scrapheap or for sale in a "Used" car lot for 10% of it's original value, meanwhile you're still playing the $1000 guitar.


That is so true! Thank you for reminding me that my car has lost value while I've been drinking my coffee - that's a great start to the day...

Not that there is a great choice with cars - buying a vintage Datsun Sunny wouldn't really solve the problem.

Mike
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Axchisler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 329
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
Diamond wrote:
Guitarists are weird creatures.
They don't think about resale value when they buy a $15,000 car, but they think about resale value when they buy a $1000 guitar.

Meanwhile the car loses $1000 in value the minute you drive it out the showroom, and drops in value daily after you've bought it.
Eventually it lands up on a scrapheap or for sale in a "Used" car lot for 10% of it's original value, meanwhile you're still playing the $1000 guitar.


True Diamond, but if you have a car from before 1972 (like guitars) in great shape, even restored with new parts, it has increased in value considerably. And there's Conan O'Brian's '92 Ford Taurus SHO he's made famous
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Axchisler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark1982 wrote:
marcusnieman wrote:
mark1982 wrote:
I like a LP to have some weight to it.

If i pick one up and i think Christ thats heavy then that the start of a great LP. Light LP's (to me) is just wrong and shows a sign of cheapness.

if you want a light guitar buy a strat lol ( i dont like some Gibson LP's as there too light)

So any copy if its got some weight to it its the start of a good copy. But then it has to deliver on tone, build quality, and price.

But when it comes to price, it has to be at a price thats worth buying.
As in no point paying ?1500 + for a Gibson LP copy. as you may as well buy a Gibson.


To each his own.... a Les Paul doesn't have to be a boat anchor to be a superb guitar.

To me, a 4 hour gig with an 11lb piece of furniture strapped on me is torture. If you're a sit down or recreational player, no biggie.... but I've learned to appreciate a lighter Les Paul if I'm gigging with it.


granted as with everything in life each to there own.

Maybe when i am older i may want to start thinking about a lighter guitar.
But for now its not affecting me but then again i am only doing 2 1/2 hour gigs twice a week. I dont think i could do 4 hours on stage we may have the songs for it but i dont think my fittness would be up to it. Far to much jumping and rocking out. LOL


Did you catch that Marcus? I think that was a shot
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jzucker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

at any rate, i'm looking for a $1k tokai, not a $3k one. Anyone know of one forsale?
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Axchisler wrote:
mark1982 wrote:
[

Maybe when i am older i may want to start thinking about a lighter guitar.


Did you catch that Marcus? I think that was a shot


With age comes tolerance, forebearance and wisdom. Let this one pass, grasshopper.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
With age comes tolerance, forebearance and wisdom.


As long as we've had our morning coffee, eh?

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mark1982
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
Axchisler wrote:
mark1982 wrote:
[

Maybe when i am older i may want to start thinking about a lighter guitar.


Did you catch that Marcus? I think that was a shot


With age comes tolerance, forebearance and wisdom. Let this one pass, grasshopper.


You forgot grumpyness lol
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mark1982
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
mark1982 wrote:
I like a LP to have some weight to it.

But when it comes to price, it has to be at a price thats worth buying.
As in no point paying ?1500 + for a Gibson LP copy. as you may as well buy a Gibson.


why?


i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.

The fact that Tokai build fantastic guitars with great build qaulity is our luck and not really the point.

The point is what makes a great copy. well a great "copy" has to give goos value other wise people would have never shelled out there hard earned money in the first place.

Put it like this if Tokai or any other guitar company sold a Les Paul copy in the 1970's and a price that cost the same or more than a Gibson do you think they would have took off? i think maybe not.

Its the fact it was a great guitar in its own right and was as good as a guitar twice its price.

The fact a LS150 is the same cost as a Gibson standard means nothing a LS150 is not copying a LP standard. as you said the lower models our.

Keep rocking tho
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Axchisler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 329
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusnieman wrote:
Axchisler wrote:
mark1982 wrote:
[

Maybe when i am older i may want to start thinking about a lighter guitar.


Did you catch that Marcus? I think that was a shot


With age comes tolerance, forebearance and wisdom. Let this one pass, grasshopper.


Well said, master...

Forebearance?
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Axchisler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.


I didn't buy cuz it was cheaper, I bought cuz it was better .
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Si Pie
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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Location: Cardiff/Swindon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem when I was looking around for a Les Paul style guitar is that the ones which still cost considerable sums ?400+ are generally not going to rock my world, even if it is just bedroom playing. It proved very tricky to buy a guitar in the sub ?500 range which didn't have one or two things which would niggle me. I could have bought a Gibson SG standard second hand for ?400 and even though this was a bargain, I wanted a Les Paul style guitar so had to pass.

I didn't get a Love Rock to be an exact replica of a Gibson Les Paul model, I just wanted a Les Paul style guitar which was the best I could afford and not too difficult to obtain. After a lot of research this led me to Tokai and specifically the LS85F, which seemed more than ample for my home playing.

If I had a bigger budget, where I could afford a Gibson Standard then I would probably have bought a higher model Tokai simply because it would represent better value for money. Value for money was my main concern and when it comes to Tokai you seem to get this in abbundance.

If I wanted my guitar to be a perfect replica of a Gibson and had the money, I would have bought a Gibson so I don't disagree with this point of view at all though. As others have alluded to, it's a personal thing of what you want from your guitar and there is no right or wrong answer.
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