I need some help please

General amplifier talk.

Moderator: ned

leadguitar_323
Guitar God
Posts: 3534
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post by leadguitar_323 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:58 am

I see, it all makes sense now. You basically want a huge loud amp because you can
Is there any other reason........bigger is better...... 8)

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3703
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:34 am

I would say 50w with a dedicated clean channel would be the best for me, for the power/requirement ratio I actually need... but I am not going to be bothered if its a 100w or a 150, if it has the versatility and tone i need,
I only went for the ceriatone 100w over the 50 because i felt it would have more headroom for cleans, and its great for that..

I would get a 50w herbert instead of the 150, but dont think they make them.. but theres a 50w einstein..

dunno .. still musing on it..

JohnA
Guitar God
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:49 am
Location: Leicester UK

Post by JohnA » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:58 am

The einstein 50 looks pretty perfect to me, the herbert is just far too big (and expensive) I thin sometimes bigger is not better you need to be able to crank an amp up to get the best out of it, and cranking a 150 watter will take some doing, but I'm sure you'll try :wink:

Diodibuh
Guitar God
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:21 am
Location: Slovenia
Contact:

Post by Diodibuh » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:02 am

I just got broken VHT (Fryette) SIg X, when I'll repair it I can tell you how it sounds. Could be the amp for your needs.
http://www.sfdamp.com/sigx.html

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3703
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:56 am

JohnA wrote:The einstein 50 looks pretty perfect to me, the herbert is just far too big (and expensive) I thin sometimes bigger is not better you need to be able to crank an amp up to get the best out of it, and cranking a 150 watter will take some doing, but I'm sure you'll try :wink:
yes i am leaning that way...

all the midi is unnecessary for me too.. but my ceriatone has great tone at lower levels too not necessary to max up the power tubes, I do have a very good attenuator for those times i want to hear PT distortion, but its not so often..

ganzua
Guitar God
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Sp

Post by ganzua » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:12 am

villager wrote:i have some, but I don't use them so much, I have a drummer..heh..
Which ones do you have? Some low wattage amps are not meant to sound low. Some of them are boutique amps that are designed to sound good at low levels and some of them can sound good at higher levels too. The Cornford Alrlequin is only 6watt or something like that and it screams like hell but it still sounds good at studio levels.
villager wrote:I would say 50w with a dedicated clean channel would be the best for me
This is probably a wrong assumption because there is not a straight relationship between watts and decibels unless you are talking about the same amp.

Loudness is measured in db, not in watts. Loudness can be improved with high sensitivity speakers, here you have a chapter of efficiency vs. sensitivity;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker

At some extent, "headroom for cleans" has something to do with speakers too. Some amps like some Marshalls have speakers that are lower wattage than the amp itself so you can drive the whole thing easier. Change the speakers and you won't drive the whole thing easier but you'll have tons of headroom for cleans :lol:

Another chapter would be the amp. If you're not happy with a Ceriatone and a Cornford... I think you want a super high-end boutique amp, :D: or maybe a custom built.

I always had a similar dilemma, I want cleans and I want tons of distortion but I do not bother with loudness anymore. I pick up a suitable amp for the sound I want and if more loudness needed, I mike the cabinet.

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3703
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:08 am

i have the blues junior, and the little blackheart , but I dont use them too much in the studio...I have a cornford 2x12 cab with vintage 30's which I want to keep for the next head..also, the hellcats high gain channel can keep with the ceriatones dirty sound at the required volumes, but I just cant get enough volume clean on the cornford, so I want a versatile amp with a good clean and a great gain voice, the cornford does not really have a pure clean channel... I am not playing super loud, but the ceriatone is a 100w with 2x12 celestion g12-65's I love that sound, but for a second amp i want a different sound clean and dirty..

ganzua
Guitar God
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Sp

Post by ganzua » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:21 am

villager wrote: I want a versatile amp with a good clean and a great gain voice
Should you find any, please let me know :D: I think you won't find a lot of them for several reasons, one of them the speakers. Have you ever tried your amps with different cabinets?

A lot of people finally end up with one head for cleans, one head for dirt and a bunch of speakers.

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3703
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:40 am

ah yes that makes a lot of sense, but I play every week with my m8's and so its really for two of us , the combination of the ceriatone and something to balance it, essentially...

hehe would love to get diff heads and cabs etc etc , but studio space is limited to 2 heads and 2 2x12's really, they are both wired into a palmer 2 channel thingy for DI, so I can just hit record in the middle of a good session and get drums and 2 guitars recorded to mess with later..its a 1 button studio..heh..

Dave_Mc
Guitar God
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Post by Dave_Mc » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:56 am

ganzua wrote:
villager wrote:up to 20 people!!!

but its just for my studio... :)
what do you think about low wattage amps?
i haven't tried too many low wattage amps which were aimed at br00tz... the headroom and tone of 100 watters (or more!) seems to work well for the heavy stuff. I get a bit tired (on other forums) of hearing people (who don't play metal, rather unsurprisingly) saying people are mad to go with a high wattage amp even when they play metal... low wattage amps work great for blues and classic rock, not so much for heavier stuff...
JohnA wrote:The einstein 50 looks pretty perfect to me, the herbert is just far too big (and expensive) I thin sometimes bigger is not better you need to be able to crank an amp up to get the best out of it, and cranking a 150 watter will take some doing, but I'm sure you'll try :wink:
i'm not convinced that's true, for modern metal, anyway. once you get over a certain volume, most of those modern high gain heads sound awesome, assuming you're after high gain. if you're not, why are you buying a high gain amp? :lol:

regarding the diezels... i've only tried the one you're not looking at, the vh4... :lol:

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3703
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:56 pm

yes i love high gain....but i need a good clean.. thats why i am leaning towards the diezels...


what was the VH-4 like?

ganzua
Guitar God
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Sp

Post by ganzua » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:48 pm

villager wrote:yes i love high gain....but i need a good clean..
What do you think of this thing?

http://www.auble-systems.com/59bassman.html

I know that it looks horrible but check samples below. Listen 12 cabinet clean sample until the end. Dirty sound is quite Marshall. Class A, point to point wiring...

JohnA
Guitar God
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:49 am
Location: Leicester UK

Post by JohnA » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:00 pm

Ganuza, some good points, but I don't agree about speaker breakup, some speakers sound creamier dirty than others, but that's because they have different frequency responses, not because they break up earlier, the distortion you hear either comes from the pre-amp, i.e. JCM900 fizzy distortion or the power-amp, JTM45 crunch, but not from the speakers. So changing to a higher wattage speaker wont increase the headroom available as long as the speakers you have are rated at the same or more than the head you are using.

The relationship between watts & loudness is simple, with the same speakers 10xwatts = 2xvolume, Villagers Vintage 30's are pretty efficient, 100 db, so a 50W head through those will be pretty damn loud! Running the Herbert flat out could well damage a pair of V30's, I would go for a 4x12 with a 150W head.

Haven't played a Diezel, but the clips I've heared seem to cover all the bases between Fender Clean & Mesa filth, if I was a 'crazy metal-head' like Villager they would be right up there on the wish-list
:wink:

Dave_Mc
Guitar God
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Post by Dave_Mc » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:29 pm

villager wrote:yes i love high gain....but i need a good clean.. thats why i am leaning towards the diezels...


what was the VH-4 like?
very nice, but I didn't much rate the clean channel... :lol: It wasn't 5150-bad, but wasn't good enough, in my opinion, for an amp costing that much which claimed to do everything. that being said, the other three channels were nice, though.

leadguitar_323
Guitar God
Posts: 3534
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post by leadguitar_323 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:27 pm

Hi Mark, have you looked into Rivera amps,they have some real beauties that have great cleans and devastating high gain, point to point as well...

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

Post Reply