Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Which pickup rings for my Love Rock?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ArthurS
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 240
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Which pickup rings for my Love Rock? Reply with quote

I need two new pickup rings for my 2003 LS80F, but I didn't know whether I needed rings with a flat or a curved bottom surface. Having taken the originals off, the weird thing is that one side of the ring seems curved, whereas the other is flat.

To illustrate: if I take the ring for the neck pickup, and look at the side that is closest to the neck, the pickup ring's bottom is pretty much flat. However, the side that is closest to the bridge is clearly curved somewhat to follow the top. Same thing with the bridge ring, although it's the other way around there (bridge side flat, neck side curved).

I need some new rings as soon as possible and I have to mail order them so I can't really check them out in person. The company I called couldn't really give a definitive answer as to which I needed. Does anyone here know?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
guitarboy
Guitar God


Joined: 09 Dec 2001
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go for curved.

My LR has split the neck pickup ring in the centre because of stress caused by the ring not following the contour well enough.

flat will break after a time.

GB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Harvey
Guitar God


Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 54
Location: Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Arthur!

I can't speak from experience on this, but I think that the guys in the LP Forum buy flat pup rings for their Historics and say that the plastic takes shape after a while, and that it's best not to screw them down all the way in one go.

Best wishes,
Ian
_________________
Burny RLG-50 Early 1980s Birdseye
Tokai LS80F Matte Violin Finish 2003
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve250SWB
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rings on my LS85Q are flat, but curve due to the contour of the top, if it is of any help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ArthurS
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 240
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone! I think the originals are flat indeed and I reckon Ian is right about them simply taking the shape of the top. I'll take the risk of them cracking, because I worry that curved would simply be 'too curved' - wouldn't look right then.

Anway, thanks for the help - just ordered a pair of flat rings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Novosel
Guitar God


Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 244
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Arthur,
I hope you ordered "tall" pickup rings, like on a Gibson Historic, because a lot of surrounds are way too short and the p'up covers stick well out of them. Of course, this is only cosmetic - it certainly doesn't adversly affect the covers at all - but the taller rings are more "historically accurate", if you're into that (which I am). Not only are the rings on my '84 Love Rock the right height (1/4" neck p'up, 1/2" bridge), but the cream colour matches the pickguard perfectly, which is a fault I find with way too many Les Paul type guitars.

Sorry, when I re-read this, I sounded a bit like a nay-sayer. I don't mean to come across as a negative know-it-all. Guess I spend too much time on the LPF! Best of luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ArthurS
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 240
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I received the rings today and they are pretty much the same height as the old ones (thanks Novosel - didn't know there were different heights!) but the color on the new ones is way off. They look too white fro my taste and are not as shiney as the old ones, so they look 'cheaper'. I'd recommend steering clear of this "GTR" brand. They are stronger than the old ones, but I don't really like the way they look, so I'll probably order some Gibson Historic rings somewhere in the future.

However, I have had a pair of the famous Tim White PAF-replicas ("Timbuckers") for almost three weeks now and I really couldn't wait to try them out. So for the moment I use the new pickup ring for the neck position so I could at least install both! I didn't expect a huge difference over the stock Gotoh pups, and when I first plugged in I thought "ah yes they're very nice, but they're not THAT different from the old ones". Thirty seconds later, however, I couldn't believe I had ever thought that. Mindblowing. These Timbuckers are absolutely amazing. My guitar sounded good stock, but it's almost like a different guitar now. I'm usually pretty good at describing sounds, but I really have no words now (except for 'wow').

The weird thing is that even though the Tims have a lower impedance than the Gotohs (7.7n/8.3b for the Tims versus low 8 neck/high 8 bridge), they feel hotter and sound way better under high-gain conditions. I'd recommend anyone who's looking for some good PAF-copies to get on Tim White's waiting list. I had to wait 9 months to get them and had serious doubts about buying them (they cost $260 per pair), but I never expected that they would sound this much better. And I haven't even adjusted them yet!

I'll try to post pictures of the new and old pickup rings and the pickups tomorrow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Novosel
Guitar God


Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 244
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthur, you lucky bast**d!
I've been on Tim's list for a few months now, but have only ordered one pickup - a bridge one to replace the rather anemic sounding Tokai PAF treble pickup -no bite to it. The stock neck p'up, however, is perfect, but you've got me thinking maybe I should go for two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ArthurS
Guitar God


Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 240
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novosel: I'm probably even more impressed with the Timbucker neck pickup than with the bridge pickup. The bridge pickup has the same character as the old one, just much better - more harmonics, yet tighter when overdriven, fatter yet more agressive. The neck pickup has quite a different character than the old Gotoh pickup, though. It's less 'woolly', has more clarity but is still warm. Also, unlike the old Gotoh pickup (which was too dark for my tastes and lacked definition when using overdrive sounds), it's not only usable under overdrive conditions, but it actually sounds good. I don't know how good your 84 pickup is, but I love the Tim neck pickup at least as much as the bridge model.

Anyway, as promised, some pictures for those interested:

This picture clearly shows the new GTR pickup rings (neck and the loose one near the bridge) are a different color than the old ones:



Timbucker in old pickup surround:



Control cavity with the new pickups installed. CTS pots and new caps coming soon:



The finished guitar for now, unoriginal pickup surround and screws in neck position:



Leaning against amplifier (might as well take some pics if I have a cam at my disposal )

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Cybercat
Guitar God


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Kennedy Town, Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArthurS wrote:
Novosel:
(snip)
This picture clearly shows the new GTR pickup rings (neck and the loose one near the bridge) are a different color than the old ones:
(snip)
CTS pots and new caps coming soon:
(snip)

Hi Arthur, great looking guitar!
- love those "tiger stripes".

A couple of comments, if I may, on two points from above...

First, the p'up covers: -
You can give them a slightly aged & "yellowed" appearance by dipping them in strong tea (...not too hot or they could warp!) - you'll need to add a "mordant" too, so the colour will take - white vinegar worked for me. May have to do it several times to get the shade to match the other plastic on the guitar.

If that fails, then DMC do some great 'aged' covers, ...but not cheap!


Prices here (scroll down to 'parts')...
http://www.davesguitar.com/product/productsub.html#anchor#10
No, that's not a typo - I couldn't believe it either! - they are $395 a pair!
...Erm, where's the teapot?

Second point, you say you are going to replace the pots with CTS...

Why on earth do you want to change the Nobels pots?

My luthier friend Simon Pinder (who does work for countless "names": like Clapton, Bowie etc.) swears that the Nobels brand pots Tokai have used since day 1 on higher end guitars are by far the very best available at any price, anywhere in the world (well, actually not very available in the west!)

- FAR better than CTS, DiMarzio, Alpha etc. They have a really nice, musical taper, are really well built with plated-through tags, the entire pot body is tinned (for easy soldering of eath/ground leads etc. without overheating the innards), extremely good - the best in fact, and definiitely cotribute to the Tokai being better than most other "clones" (& many of the originals too!)

Would be very grateful if you could tell us what it is that makes you want to remove them to put "new pots" in. CTS will not be anywhere near as musical sounding, reliable or easy to install. I'll be happy to take the Nobels ones off you once you've removed them!

You may, however, be much better off just changing the tone caps, if not to "bumble bees" then to Relcap TFT, (teflon) I 'd reccomend .015 for the neck & .022 for the bridge. I have these in one of my guitars & it kills the 'Vitamin Q' & Hovland Musicaps in my 1980 LS60, ...which already kill the Sprague Orange drops in another, hehe.

Good luck anyway (& let me know if you want to sell the Nobels pots!)
_________________
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

My current Skype status is : -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd. My tokai had bog standard 'made in japan' pots (like arthur's) and the ls320 uses CTS. Seems hard to believe they'd use better pots on their mid range models.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Harvey
Guitar God


Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 54
Location: Kent, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bill!

Great info about the vinegar. I'd tried the tea immersion method before, but without much success; is there an optimum amount of vinegar?

Also, very interesting about the Nobels pots. As Arthur knows, I've got an almost-twin of his LP, and I'd bought some CTS pots and Sprauge Orange Drops from Black Rose in the States as it seemed to be common knowledge on the LPF that they were a 'no-brainer' upgrade.

Is there a way of identifying Nobels pots? From (admittedly poor) memory, mine look just like Arthur's, and his don't seem to have any manufacturer's marks on, judging by his photos. Nice photos by the way, Arthur.

While I'm writing, I took some close-ups of my front pickup cavity when I last changed strings, and looking at Arthur's pics reminded me that I was going to mention the maple cap; that is, unlike Eric Morcombe, I can't see the join!



Oh, and if anybody can deceipher the writing in the cavity I'd be grateful. My photos are on photobucket.com, and the album name is ianharvey.

Best wishes,
Ian
_________________
Burny RLG-50 Early 1980s Birdseye
Tokai LS80F Matte Violin Finish 2003
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cybercat
Guitar God


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Kennedy Town, Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:
Odd. My tokai had bog standard 'made in japan' pots (like arthur's) and the ls320 uses CTS. Seems hard to believe they'd use better pots on their mid range models.


The "bog standard' ones in Arthur's pics are the Nobels, excellent!

I agree it seems very strange if they use CTS on the LS320, though I understand that was spec'd by several private customers from US, so may have become standard on them?

That's the only possiblilty Simon can think of - seems there may have been some ignorance on the part of the buyers!
(...maybe - as a kind of poor attempt at a simile - they'd prefer a mass-produced US-made car like a Ford to a 'foreign' Mercedes or high-end Lexus too?)
_________________
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

My current Skype status is : -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cybercat
Guitar God


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Kennedy Town, Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian Harvey wrote:

snip
is there an optimum amount of vinegar?
snip
Is there a way of identifying Nobels pots?
snip
unlike Eric Morcombe, I can't see the join!


1) I think the instructions I found on the net were vague but said "a tbsp" - which I took to be a tablespoon full - but bear in mind American English "tablespoon" is what's called a "dessert spoon" in British English (& I think they call a tablespoon a "Serving Spoon" or somesuch!?!). Mute point anyway, as it didn't say how much tea to add the tbsp to anyway

I just dribbled a bit in each time.

2) Nobles pots -



Thats the Nobles on the right each time, note the tinned body & plated through brass rivet tag holes, whereas the Dimarzio (left) & CTS (centre) just have the metal bent over...

The Nobles looks duller than the others in the pics, as it's 20-odd years old. The other two are brand new ...& both dead, straight out of the packaging...

3) What join? - I can't see one either! Congrats!
_________________
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

My current Skype status is : -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ian Harvey
Guitar God


Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 54
Location: Kent, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks Bill... once I get home I'm unscrewing the control plate to have a look! I could use the CTS pots on my son's Epi Gold Top instead.

I remember a photo (that I think was on this forum but I could be wrong) showing a Tokai Love Rock pickup cavity. You could clearly see the central join of the veneer. The join in the maple cap underneath was markedly off-centre.

So I'm wondering how many pieces my maple cap is; I can't imagine it would be a single piece...

Best wishes,
Ian

ps - Apologies to all for the width of my photo. It's the first time I've posted a picture. I'll resize next time.
_________________
Burny RLG-50 Early 1980s Birdseye
Tokai LS80F Matte Violin Finish 2003
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group