70 Years Today - Britian's Declaration of War on Germany

all I know is, when I sell a guitar I ship it to the buyer packaged to survive WWIII

I rarely ship a guitar in a hard case

OK, back to the political BS .....................

Just remember that Israel is surrounded by numerous Islamic nations that are bound and determined to wipe them out. Their hatred of Israel is the only thing that keeps them from turning on themselves and self-imploding. When Israel acts, it does so out of self-preservation, and usually only after they have tried to fix it diplomatically to no avail.

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That would be fine if Israel had always been there, you need to remember that the land that is now Israel was not theirs in the first place. If Israel didn't have the backing of the US it would make completely different decisions and act a lot more compassionately that it does. For every one Israeli killed there are about 10 Palestinians killed, if that happened anywhere else there would be hell to pay. I don't support the way that the middle eastern nations around them act {or the smaller amount of extremest's that actually participate in this} but i think Israel acts like a bully and screw the consequences, this helps nothing and actually disgusts me. I condone nothing either side does in this conflict but Israel should try leading by example and not just stealing others land and destroying everything it sees fit to. I am not religious and take no sides but Israel does nothing on a global scale to better its reputation.

Mick

OK, first off... my apologies to all as this thread has gone WAY off mark... but since I am 1/2 way in I may as well go all the way. and Mick, I say this with all respect.

leadguitar_323 said:

Just remember that Israel is surrounded by numerous Islamic nations that are bound and determined to wipe them out. Their hatred of Israel is the only thing that keeps them from turning on themselves and self-imploding. When Israel acts, it does so out of self-preservation, and usually only after they have tried to fix it diplomatically to no avail.

Click to expand...

That would be fine if Israel had always been there, you need to remember that the land that is now Israel was not theirs in the first place. If Israel didn't have the backing of the US it would make completely different decisions and act a lot more compassionately that it does. For every one Israeli killed there are about 10 Palestinians killed, if that happened anywhere else there would be hell to pay. I don't support the way that the middle eastern nations around them act {or the smaller amount of extremest's that actually participate in this} but i think Israel acts like a bully and screw the consequences, this helps nothing and actually disgusts me. I condone nothing either side does in this conflict but Israel should try leading by example and not just stealing others land and destroying everything it sees fit to. I am not religious and take no sides but Israel does nothing on a global scale to better its reputation.

Mick

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Well... The Kingdom of Israel-Judah existed in what is basically present day Israel from about 1050-589 BC, and scattered Jewish people lived there off and on until the early part of this century when they started moving back to their homeland en masse. So they existed longer as a nation in that land than the United States of America has, who forceably took its land from Native Americans (and I am 7th generation European American so all fingers are pointing directly at me), as well as longer than Australia has existed as a nation, and who did likewise to the native people there. If you are referring to "Palestine", that was a Roman name given to the region in 135 AD to "de-Jewish" the area. Todays "Palestinians" are ethnically Arabs who moved into the area in the Jew's national absence... and for the most part lived peacably with their returning Jewish neighbors in the early part of this century. In 1948, the surrounding Arab armies that allied to attack a "newly" established nation of Israel told the Arabs living within the newly designated borders to GET OUT, while they came in and annihilated the new Jewish state, and then they could move back in and have everything. One small problem... Israel won the war. Ever since, the "Palestinians" have been the sad by-product of a political standoff between Arab and Jew. It is just funny and slightly ironic though that Israel can assimilate millions of displaced European Jews over the last 60 years into useful society, and yet Jordan, Syria, Saudia Arabia, etc., cannot or will not do the same for their brothers. Why? Because they are being used as a pawn.

I think the Jewish assimilation is purely a numbers game, more Jews = more power to the government and more pressure on the west to help them in their efforts to take back more land of the Palestinians, not directly of course, but i think you know what i mean. I mean no disrespect with my next comments but religion is the problem her once again, completely distorted by both sides to justify its actions.


Mick

3pupLPC said:

Well... The Kingdom of Israel-Judah existed in what is basically present day Israel from about 1050-589 BC, and scattered Jewish people lived there off and on until the early part of this century when they started moving back to their homeland en masse. So they existed longer as a nation in that land than the United States of America has, who forceably took its land from Native Americans (and I am 7th generation European American so all fingers are pointing directly at me), as well as longer than Australia has existed as a nation, and who did likewise to the native people there. If you are referring to "Palestine", that was a Roman name given to the region in 135 AD to "de-Jewish" the area. Todays "Palestinians" are ethnically Arabs who moved into the area in the Jew's national absence... and for the most part lived peacably with their returning Jewish neighbors in the early part of this century. In 1948, the surrounding Arab armies that allied to attack a "newly" established nation of Israel told the Arabs living within the newly designated borders to GET OUT, while they came in and annihilated the new Jewish state, and then they could move back in and have everything. One small problem... Israel won the war. Ever since, the "Palestinians" have been the sad by-product of a political standoff between Arab and Jew. It is just funny and slightly ironic though that Israel can assimilate millions of displaced European Jews over the last 60 years into useful society, and yet Jordan, Syria, Saudia Arabia, etc., cannot or will not do the same for their brothers. Why? Because they are being used as a pawn.

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using that logic shouldn't you be handing the states back to the indigenous americans? :lol: not that i can say too much considering i live in NI...

Dave_Mc said:

3pupLPC said:

Well... The Kingdom of Israel-Judah existed in what is basically present day Israel from about 1050-589 BC, and scattered Jewish people lived there off and on until the early part of this century when they started moving back to their homeland en masse. So they existed longer as a nation in that land than the United States of America has, who forceably took its land from Native Americans (and I am 7th generation European American so all fingers are pointing directly at me), as well as longer than Australia has existed as a nation, and who did likewise to the native people there. If you are referring to "Palestine", that was a Roman name given to the region in 135 AD to "de-Jewish" the area. Todays "Palestinians" are ethnically Arabs who moved into the area in the Jew's national absence... and for the most part lived peacably with their returning Jewish neighbors in the early part of this century. In 1948, the surrounding Arab armies that allied to attack a "newly" established nation of Israel told the Arabs living within the newly designated borders to GET OUT, while they came in and annihilated the new Jewish state, and then they could move back in and have everything. One small problem... Israel won the war. Ever since, the "Palestinians" have been the sad by-product of a political standoff between Arab and Jew. It is just funny and slightly ironic though that Israel can assimilate millions of displaced European Jews over the last 60 years into useful society, and yet Jordan, Syria, Saudia Arabia, etc., cannot or will not do the same for their brothers. Why? Because they are being used as a pawn.

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using that logic shouldn't you be handing the states back to the indigenous americans? :lol: not that i can say too much considering i live in NI...

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That's sort of the point... The U.S., Canada, Mexico, the South American countries, Australia- were all forceably resettled and the indigenous people displaced or wiped out... and, well that's just history... no one is demanding that we give it back to the original owners. But when the Jews go back to the land they ORIGINALLY settled and created a sovereign, bordered nation 3,000 years ago, they catch hell from the world view. (granted, Canaanites lived there then, and yeah, that was a hostile takeover- but the "Palestinians" are not Canaanites, they are Arabs.)

leadguitar_323 said:

I think the Jewish assimilation is purely a numbers game, more Jews = more power to the government and more pressure on the west to help them in their efforts to take back more land of the Palestinians, not directly of course, but i think you know what i mean. I mean no disrespect with my next comments but religion is the problem her once again, completely distorted by both sides to justify its actions.


Mick

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Mick, I completely agree with you that religion is the bottom line issue. But unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view (which I think we are all respectfully conveying here!), it's almost impossible to have a discussion about the middle east without religion being center-stage. I would disagree with you though on the numbers game... people naturally gravitate towards others with whom they are going to feel free, safe, and secure; don't we all want that?... And European Jews of the 30's and 40's and even later with the Soviet Jews, certainly had reason to look for safe harbor. But Israel has not assimilated onlyJews; there are numerous Arab-Israelis that are full citizens with the same rights as Jewish-Israelis.

people naturally gravitate towards others with whom they are going to feel free, safe, and secure; don't we all want that?...

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I understand what you are trying to say here but i think there are a hell of a lot safer places to live on the planet than Israel and there are large Jewish communities throughout the world. I haven't yet mentioned Gaza and the resumptions of land there as well. I just think Israel has a "holier than thou" approach and only does this because it has US support and weaponry. I wholly believe that if Israel didn't have The US supplied arms they would have a very different approach to this problem.

Mick

3pupLPC said:

That's sort of the point... The U.S., Canada, Mexico, the South American countries, Australia- were all forceably resettled and the indigenous people displaced or wiped out... and, well that's just history... no one is demanding that we give it back to the original owners. But when the Jews go back to the land they ORIGINALLY settled and created a sovereign, bordered nation 3,000 years ago, they catch hell from the world view. (granted, Canaanites lived there then, and yeah, that was a hostile takeover- but the "Palestinians" are not Canaanites, they are Arabs.)

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my point was that israel is kind of strange. The fact that they settled it so long ago, yet also so recently means that you could kind of use either argument to let them stay... or equally well use either argument to say that they shouldn't be allowed to stay. i think they should be allowed to stay on the basis that if you don't, a lot of other countries and people are going to feel very uncomfortable (as they often haven't been in their countries for much longer), added to the fact that most israelis now were presumably born there and they weren't the ones who set it up, but certainly if we could go back in time and not set up israel in 1948 (or set it up somewhere else which wasn't in the middle of a ton of people wanting to kick them out), that'd be the ideal...

leadguitar_323 said:

people naturally gravitate towards others with whom they are going to feel free, safe, and secure; don't we all want that?...

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I understand what you are trying to say here but i think there are a hell of a lot safer places to live on the planet than Israel and there are large Jewish communities throughout the world. I haven't yet mentioned Gaza and the resumptions of land there as well. I just think Israel has a "holier than thou" approach and only does this because it has US support and weaponry. I wholly believe that if Israel didn't have The US supplied arms they would have a very different approach to this problem.

Mick

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I can't argue that Israel sometimes has taken basically a "screw it all" stance..... and I think that one day, even the U.S. is going to turn its back on them.

History constantly repeats itself ?????.

Doesn?t matter who or what; the Roman Empire, The United States, the Nazis, Israel, all have done the same thing more or less & to differing degrees

It?s human nature when it comes to nations crapping on weaker humans

Taking advantage of others is a way of life; it?s business as usual ?????

If it's not done via the barrel of a gun it will be done economically; the Chinese will own the world in a few years ........... ye ha ................

Can we get back to geetars???????????????????????????

MIJvintage said:

History constantly repeats itself ?????.

Doesn?t matter who or what; the Roman Empire, The United States, the Nazis, Israel, all have done the same thing more or less & to differing degrees

It?s human nature when it comes to nations crapping on weaker humans

Taking advantage of others is a way of life; it?s business as usual ?????

If it's not done via the barrel of a gun it will be done economically; the Chinese will own the world in a few years ........... ye ha ................

Can we get back to geetars???????????????????????????

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This is the "general discussion" area....

Mick

leadguitar_323 said:

MIJvintage said:

History constantly repeats itself ?????.

Doesn?t matter who or what; the Roman Empire, The United States, the Nazis, Israel, all have done the same thing more or less & to differing degrees

It?s human nature when it comes to nations crapping on weaker humans

Taking advantage of others is a way of life; it?s business as usual ?????

If it's not done via the barrel of a gun it will be done economically; the Chinese will own the world in a few years ........... ye ha ................

Can we get back to geetars???????????????????????????

Click to expand...

This is the "general discussion" area....

Mick

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ah, yes Mick & thanks for reminding me of that fact

well then, I suppose my views on Israel are appropriate fodder here.

AFA Israel is concerned I think they pretty much suck.

Israel has denied compliance with more UN resolutions that any nation in existence.
If this were the fact in reverse, and certain particular nations were in Israel?s place, the bombing would have already been over.
After all, non compliance with UN resolutions was the justification for the US resuming hostilities against Iraq in 2003, under George W. Moron.

The Israeli government acts with impunity within the world community & one day Israel will pay a heavy burden for their BS.

There was a great American statesman many generation ago that espoused the idea of keeping America unencumbered with the type of relationship we (United States) have with Israel, and with many other nations.
It is a shame that America has become so blinded with so many alliances & BS; we are lost.

Everyone believes differently but there is no denying the fact that historically the Jews denied Jesus.
How ironic that historically the Jews deny a Jewish Messiah.

How ironic that according to ancient scriptures, Israel is a 'chosen' nation.

Israel will eventually be the thorn in the side of the planet that brings the end of all.

The world is built on irony ??????????

MIJvintage said:

Everyone believes differently but there is no denying the fact that historically the Jews denied Jesus.
How ironic that historically the Jews deny a Jewish Messiah.

How ironic that according to ancient scriptures, Israel is a 'chosen' nation.

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You are 100% right Rich, but those scriptures also say that Israel will eventually do an about-face towards Jesus..

Zechariah 12: 10 (Contemporary English Version)
I, the LORD, will make the descendants of David and the people of Jerusalem feel deep sorrow and pray when they see the one they pierced with a spear. They will mourn and weep for him, as parents weep over the death of their only child or their first-born.

MIJvintage said:

The Israeli government acts with impunity within the world community & one day Israel will pay a heavy burden for their BS.

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I think that is a matter of fact as well..... which eventually leads them to the actions of the above verse.

With regard to the US supporting Israel, let's not forget the way large parts of the US supported the IRA - a blatantly terrorist organisation. And yet in recent years the US has chosen to portray itself as the scourge of terrorism.

I'm not blind to the problems in Northern Ireland, & I know that the "British occupation" situation there was far from perfect, but supporting terrorism either politically or financially is always going to be highly questionable. And easily forgettable, apparently....

Mike

In a bid to lighten a somewhat heavy thread, a few of you might like to read this, which I just received in an e.mail. As it has a dig at most nations, hopefully everyone reading it will be equally offended:

The British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats in Afghanistan and have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Brits have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance". The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide". The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender". The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

It's not only the French who are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout loudly and excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing". Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides".

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose".

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Americans meanwhile are carrying out pre-emptive strikes on all of their allies, just in case.

New Zealand has also raised its security levels - from "baaa" to "BAAAA!" Due to continuing defence cutbacks (the Royal New Zealand Air Force being a squadron of spotty teenagers flying paper aeroplanes and the navy some toy boats in the Prime Minister's bath), New Zealand only has one more level of escalation, which is "Shut, I hope Austrulia will come end riscue us". In the event of invasion, New Zealanders will be asked to gather together in a strategic defensive position called "Bondi".

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be right, mate". Three more escalation levels remain: "Crikey!", "I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend" and "The barbie is cancelled". There has not been a situation yet that has warranted the use of the final escalation level.


The Aussies seem to get off pretty lightly in that one - I wonder who wrote it?



Mike

I don't think there is much hollidays in Belgium.

I think we (french) can "Shout loudly and excitedly" and "Elaborate Military Posturing" just as well as the Italians. For the rest, it seems accurate.

haha, i think i've seen something like that before, mike.

regarding the US support of the IRA- I think it's worth pointing out that britain has been in ireland longer than the (non-indigenous) americans have been in the USA (certainly longer than the USA has been a country, at any rate). Obviously in a perfect world you could go back in time and not come in in the first place, but seeing as we're fresh out of flux capacitors, it's a bit churlish for the americans (those sympathetic to ireland, anyway) to expect britain to pull out of ireland without also offering to pack up and leave north america as a similar goodwill gesture so as not to be complete hypocrites.

stratman323 said:

Americans meanwhile are carrying out pre-emptive strikes on all of their allies, just in case.

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heeey... no sense takin' chances right?? Those WMD's are out there somewhere :wink: