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The ongoing tenon debate & mystery

 
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
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Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: The ongoing tenon debate & mystery Reply with quote

Right, anyone else seen anything like the following:

In my LS-200 the neck tenon extends to the end of the fingerboard and is placed slightly to the left (face-on). The fit is very tight. HOWEVER - underneath the main body of the tenon is a curved lip. It looks like a long tenon lip, but it's a second piece of wood *under* the tenon, also ending at the fingerboard edge. There's a lot of glue around it but it looks like fits flush at the edges. The neck is not 2-piece, there's no join at the heel.

I tried to take some pics but they turned out very badly - I'll try to post one tonight. I've never seen a neck joint like that before.
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Boogle
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The slightly to the left positioning is true for all Japanese Love rocks. At least it is the same on mine, and the same on yours. I wonder why they do that instead of placing it in the middle like other companies.
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ArthurS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Paladin that does sound strange. Certainly not anything I've seen before. I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures!

Quote:
I wonder why they do that instead of placing it in the middle like other companies.

My guess is that placing it to the left allows for more body wood between the tenon and the cutaway, thus making the joint stronger.
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tubedogsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin, your tenon doesn't extend into the neck pup route??
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tubedogsmith wrote:
Paladin, your tenon doesn't extend into the neck pup route??


It does, but there's another bit of wood under it. My guess at the moment is that it's a very, very large shim - instead of cutting a good fit on the whole tenon, they could cut a good fit on a seperate piece of wood and glue it all together later. A labour saving measure that still ensures a strong, good quality joint.

I may email tokai and ask them about it.
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ArthurS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:
I may email tokai and ask them about it.
Well, it's an idea but don't get your hopes up. I'm still waiting (well, not really) for them to reply to an e-mail I sent them over a year ago. Maybe you'd have a better chance of getting a reply from the UK importer?
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the best pic I could take. The digi camera refused to focus or refrain from using flash so I had to hold my finger over the flash bulb - hence the red.

You can see the tenon offset to the left and the piece of wood that looks like a long tenon lip under it in the body rout. Even in this pic you can see it's a seperate, darker piece of wood.

The tenon, fingerboard and wierd wood all end at the same point. The tenon is marked with an 'A', with model # and date written in the space under the neck pup.

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Boogle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really hard to see in the photo, a hand drawn picture might be better. From what you're saying, I get the impression that the one piece neck ends at the fingerboard, and the deep tenon 'lip' is made of another piece of darker wood? So the deep tenon is actually fake? I'm not sure I understand.
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogle wrote:
It's really hard to see in the photo, a hand drawn picture might be better. From what you're saying, I get the impression that the one piece neck ends at the fingerboard, and the deep tenon 'lip' is made of another piece of darker wood? So the deep tenon is actually fake? I'm not sure I understand.


No, it's not a deep tenon lip. It's a piece of wood with a curved end (that resembles a deep lip) under the tenon. There's 3 layers, all ending at the neck pup cavity - fingerboard, tenon, mystery wood.

Is the pic any use or will I have to disassemble everything again?
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Novosel
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool infra-red pic! The yellow shows the place on the fretboard where your fingers have never been.

Seriously, that is a most unusual feature. I think next string change, I will pull my pickup and have a closer look at the tenon.
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some highlighting *dig dig dig*



Showing the maple line, the routes in the neck cavity, the tenon and A mark, and mystery wood. If you compare it with the untreated pic it may be clearer.
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guitarboy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clear as mud now

Can you filter the photo in some sort of piccy editor
that migt help

GB
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have an editor.

I think I'll try again next string change. Meantime I'll email tokai, but I doubt I'll get a reply.
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deddog
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If A is the tenon and ^^^^^^^^ is the darker wood is the lower area arouted pocket or part of the tenon?
It looks to me like the darker wood is a wedge to correct a incorrectly cut tenon perhaps even the Japanese have Friday afternoon syndrome.
All the glue in the area suggests a bodge job but what the heck, if you like the guitar and it sounds okay just put it back together and forget about it.
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deddog
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deddog wrote:
If A is the tenon and ^^^^^^^^ is the darker wood is the lower area arouted pocket or part of the tenon?
It looks to me like the darker wood is a wedge to correct a incorrectly cut tenon perhaps even the Japanese have Friday afternoon syndrome.
All the glue in the area suggests a bodge job but what the heck, if you like the guitar and it sounds okay just put it back together and forget about it.


The lower area is a rout. I don't think the friday thing is the answer. First, this is one of their top end models, second I think they'd have noticed a bit earlier if the tenon was half an inch too thin, and finally the MW ends flush with the bottom of the tenon and a botch would probably extend out or tuck in slightly. The glue makes it hard to see if the MW (mystery wood) is tight to the sides so I can't comment on that aspect.

I know we have a few more ls200 owners on the board, one of which is only 3 serial #'s from mine - anybody else got MW?
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