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HELP on TENONS

 
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doppleganger
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: HELP on TENONS Reply with quote

i recently bought an OBG goldtop, which i believed to be a reissue. it has the fret edge bidings, blank trussrod cover, patent applied for pickups etc.

here's some photos:









and in my research, i chance upon comparing its serial number with japanguitars.com.uk's goldtop reissue

my serial:




japanguitars.com.uk:


other photos of the above goldtop are found here:
http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/generalunrest/ObG%20LPR-reissue%20Goldtop%201993/



so i jest on myself that its almost a distant cousin from the batch of RI's, however when i brought it home, i opened the neck pup cavity and saw this:







it seems that it doesn't look like the ones i've been seeing in the forums about long tenon ones. it doesn't have a TONGUE, nor i can't see any sign of seam for it to protrude. prolly been covered by the finish, but something's been bugging me. there's a mark of a rectangle in the middle of the cavity and i can't seem to figure it out.

well i also heard about some stories about the RI's not having the all-RI features at all, did i get a lemon out of the bunch? the FEB is really done nicely, nobody would go on faking it lolz!

i hope to hear from our resident experts on this matter. OBTW, should it be short tenon, i wouldn't mind spending 220usd on it tho!

thanks in advance!!!!


Last edited by doppleganger on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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doppleganger
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's my previous post prior to buying the guitar

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14232
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leadguitar_323
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that tenon stops at the cavity then that is generally referred to as a "medium" tenon. The short tenon is used on Gibson standards and has a little piece of wood in front of the end of the neck to make it look like the neck is flush with the front cavity. The little "rectangle could be a piece of tape painted over, underneath could be a model number, this is common with Japanese guitar makers.

Mick
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terada and Fujigen make guitars in a different way.
The Terada G serial OBG's have medium, medium long and long tenons and what you get is a bit of a lottery draw.
The Terada K Orvilles are the same with medium, medium long and long tenons which is not surprising when it turns out that a lot of the K Orvilles are just G serial OBG bodies and necks that didn't make the OBG cut.

The Fujigen no letter OBG's and Orvilles always have long tenons.

This tenon thing is the biggest non issue thing about a guitar.
It became a selling feature and of course the old 50s Gibsons had them and buyers wanted to emulate them.

There are photos aound the web and other things going into detail about what a so called long tenon is.

A long tenon ends up after the neck pickup cavity routing is done as a thin lip of neck tenon wood that would have hardly any influence on sustain.

A medium tenon might be a better design as it doesn't have as much body wood routed out to fit the neck tenon lip part and depending on your point of view, a case could be made that this leads to better sustain but in reality it would have hardly any influence on sustain and neither would a long tenon lip with part of the body routed out so that the lip fits into the body.

The truth is that the long tenon was conceived as a strong neck joint with the thin lip providing a bit of extra strength.
The extra strength that a long tenon lip provides is not that much.

A long tenon is a fiddly thing to set at the right angle and Gibson got fed up with it and went to simpler construction and Fujigen also got fed up with long tenon construction for a while in the late 80s/early 90s.
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doppleganger
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@leadguitar_323 and japanstrat:

thank you for the lessons on tenons


i know i am after the sustain, as i perceived that long tenon=better sustain, but i was wrong. now that you said it, my search would only to have the features of OBG reissues present in my guitar.

so it's safe to conclude now that i got a reissue? after all, it got the tell-tales of RI's like FEB, blank trussrod covers, serial number and stuff?
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JohnA
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A blank TRC, and a S/N could always be faked, FEB can't though, so don't worry, you surely have a re-issue. The Tokai Reborns, Greco EGF's, and a lot of the early Navigators don't have long tenons and these are IMO some of the best sounding guitars you can buy, the tenon length isn't that big an issue.
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenon is a big issue when it's relative to a method of construction. But the construction of guitars with long and so called medium tenon is exactly the same. That is what people who make a tenon contest of "who have the longest" don't understand. It doesn't matter at all if it's a so called medium or so called long, it will change nothing in the sustain.

I even saw a message of someone who wanted to fill the "pocket" of his Bacchus whith a piece of wood ( on the lespaul forum). As if it was going to increase the sustain or change anything...
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doppleganger wrote:



i know i am after the sustain


Then I would focus on other such upgrades as Faber locking tailpieces and bridges with aluminum tailpiece, brass or titanium saddles.

Not sure where you are located but the Faber components are available from forum member togps in Germany and from CV Guitars here in the States:

http://www.tokaiguitar.de/produkte.php?rubrik=4&rechts=7

http://cvguitars.com/parts/ToneLock.html
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le juge
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009
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Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

20 century boy wrote:
Tenon is a big issue when it's relative to a method of construction. But the construction of guitars with long and so called medium tenon is exactly the same. That is what people who make a tenon contest of "who have the longest" don't understand. It doesn't matter at all if it's a so called medium or so called long, it will change nothing in the sustain.

I even saw a message of someone who wanted to fill the "pocket" of his Bacchus whith a piece of wood ( on the lespaul forum). As if it was going to increase the sustain or change anything...

Probably to change something in his mind...
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soundcreation
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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude you are really obsessing about this stuff way too much. As I said in you're last thread NO BODY is faking Orvilles. It makes absolutely no sense. Even the best ones are not THAT valuable to make it worth someone's while to go to the trouble, when faking real gibsons is much more profitable. At best I could see someone changing the truss rod covers..but that would be easy to spot.

And in both you're threads I haven't heard you mention once how it sounds. I admit I like to have nice specs too, but really in the end who cares if it sounds good.

But seriously if the tenon thing is really bugging you I'll give you what you paid for it + shipping.



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doppleganger
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

soundcreation wrote:
Dude you are really obsessing about this stuff way too much.
And in both you're threads I haven't heard you mention once how it sounds. I admit I like to have nice specs too, but really in the end who cares if it sounds good.

But seriously if the tenon thing is really bugging you I'll give you what you paid for it + shipping.





oh i forgot about the sound when all i did was getting obsessed with the tenon

it does good creamy tones, can even go head on with my metal settings with my esp loaded emgs (a few tweaks and its all good)

thanks for calling my attention and get back to reality its a keeper! but i'll let you know if she'll need a new home..you'll be the first to know!!!


@ marcusnieman

yeah, i could make use of the upgrades later, for now, m gonna enjoy the stock..should funds kick in later, i might get one of those



@20 century boy, JohnA
gracias....i really appreciate the info guys!



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