Naughty Gibson...

Just thought this may be of interest.



Feds raid Gibson offices
Iconic company investigated for illegal importation of Madagascar wood -- Updated with statement from Gibson

Email | Print By J.R. Lind

11-17-2009 11:40 AM ? UPDATED: To clarify that charges have yet to be filed and identify the federal agency involved in the office search; adds statement from Gibson.


Federal agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and local police today seized wood, guitars, computers and boxes of files from Gibson Guitar's Massman Road manufacturing facility.
Sources say the Nashville-based guitar manufacturer is being investigated for violating the Lacey Act, a key piece of environmental law, for importing endangered species of rosewood from Madagascar.
Rosewood is widely used in the construction of guitars and sells for $5,000 per cubic meter, more than double the price of mahogany. The island nation off Africa's east coast is a key producer of the hardwood, the export of which has links to international criminal activity.
A statement from Gibson released late Tuesday afternoon says the company is "fully co-operating" with the investigation.
"Gibson Guitar is fully cooperating with agents of the United States Fish & Wildlife Service as it pertains to an issue with harvested wood. Gibson is a chain of custody certified buyer who purchases wood from legal suppliers who are to follow all standards. Gibson Guitar Chairman and CEO [Henry Juszkiewicz] sits on the board of the Rainforest Alliance and takes the issue of certification very seriously. The company will continue to cooperate fully and assist our federal government with all inquiries and information," the company's statement said.

Madagascar has struggled financially since a January coup and new President Andry Rajoelina issued an executive order in September legalizing the export of rosewood and ebony. The move was decried by environmental groups and political leaders worldwide, as hardwood forests are key to Madagascar's unique ecology and serve as a habitat for a dwindling lemur population.
Sources tell NashvillePost.com Gibson was involved in a scheme that shipped the wood from Madagascar to Germany and then to the United States.


Mick

What next??

Lemur hide guitar straps?

Andry Rajoelina



Only 10% of the original Madagascar forestation left and this buffoon is hell-bent on plundering the remainder.

Gibson are obnoxious in my view.

stratmoto said:

What next??

Lemur hide guitar straps?

Click to expand...

I've always thought that a Panda fur strap would look good with my white Strat.

And they should be readily available from China too....

Mike

Bet they're not legit Panda though..just B&W cat with a Panda logo.

Fake Pandas? Whatever is the world coming to?

Lucky for us Japan doesn't have the same restrictions as the US - My 2009 Bacchus Duke and 2007 Momose MC-2 both have Madagascan rosewood fret boards.

It's actually no good if there's a greedy f*ck just cutting everything down and keeping most of the money. What are they going to do when the last tree gets cut down? I do feel slightly guilty, but I didn't know at the time when I bought them. It's up to us! Boycott all new guitars with banned wood!

I wonder if Gibson bought that rosewood off Tokai... :lol:

Martin are still selling guitars made with Madagascan rosewood back and sides ??I played one a few weeks ago, and you can specify it if you play around at their custom shop ? so presumably it is available legitimately too.

Ludicrously expensive though. On an OM28, relative to Indian rosewood, it adds $5000 to what starts off as a $3000 guitar.

I have never bought a new guitar!
The reason: to be as environment friendly as possible.

I don't buy new furnitures either. And for TV and such I usually buy it from the repo-mans auctions. Brand new but half price! Somebody's death is my bread

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Koubayashi said:

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Click to expand...

You're the one eating the plants, not us!

:lol:

Koubayashi said:

I have never bought a new guitar!
The reason: to be as environment friendly as possible.

I don't buy new furnitures either. And for TV and such I usually buy it from the repo-mans auctions. Brand new but half price! Somebody's death is my bread

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Click to expand...

i like some of your points.
for us in europe it is hard to imagine, that > 2 billion people are living in
china and india allone, and what will happen, if they all want the same living standard as we have????????

so many wonderfull resources are wasted in an awfull way.disgusting.
i give you a simple example.
back in september the vw golf1 production was stopped in south africa.
it had "old and simple" technique.
but was a VERY reliable car.
did not consume to much and the weight was about 800 kilos.
800!
and now compare that to a new golf.1400 kilos.
full of electric.vmax is >180 km.
speed limit is in most countries +- 110 km.
is the world really needing this "progress"?????

in the end we will have no more wood at all.
and with the wood the plants and animals are gone.

rico_rox said:

Koubayashi said:

I have never bought a new guitar!
The reason: to be as environment friendly as possible.

I don't buy new furnitures either. And for TV and such I usually buy it from the repo-mans auctions. Brand new but half price! Somebody's death is my bread

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Click to expand...

i like some of your points.
for us in europe it is hard to imagine, that > 2 billion people are living in
china and india allone, and what will happen, if they all want the same living standard as we have????????

so many wonderfull resources are wasted in an awfull way.disgusting.
i give you a simple example.
back in september the vw golf1 production was stopped in south africa.
it had "old and simple" technique.
but was a VERY reliable car.
did not consume to much and the weight was about 800 kilos.
800!
and now compare that to a new golf.1400 kilos.
full of electric.vmax is >180 km.
speed limit is in most countries +- 110 km.
is the world really needing this "progress"?????

in the end we will have no more wood at all.
and with the wood the plants and animals are gone.

Click to expand...

VW sell cars that people want to buy. Progress is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be living in caves.

If you want to save rainforests, then buy one and look after it:

http://www.ownforest.com/

stratman323 said:

Koubayashi said:

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Click to expand...

You're the one eating the plants, not us!

:lol:

Click to expand...

LMFAO..!!!!

Koubayashi said:

I have never bought a new guitar!
The reason: to be as environment friendly as possible.

Click to expand...

You're still part of it - the new guitar market is supported by a strong second hand market. However, re-using goods is something we have to get used to, but we need manufacturers to make things that actually can be re-used (guitars seem pretty good in this respect!).

I have 4 guitars, 3 were bought second hand, the Duke is the only new guitar I've bought since 1987.

Koubayashi said:

And I am a vegetarian.
If you really worry about the forests stop eat meat!!

Click to expand...

This is 100% right, 3 tonnes of green house gases are produced when making 1 kilo of beef. I wont ever go vege unless forced to, but I only eat meat once or twice a week at the most.

youami said:

VW sell cars that people want to buy. Progress is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be living in caves.

If you want to save rainforests, then buy one and look after it:

http://www.ownforest.com/

Click to expand...

You sure you're an Aussie? Your logic is very... erm, something.

Why should he buy a rainforest? Charity is the only way to save them? You mean to tell me that we will go on cutting them down until there's none left because a few people make good money out of it, and if they are to be saved it's up to people with less money to pay for it? That just seems f*ckin ludicrous to me.

I have benefited from progress as much as anyone, but if China and India are going to approach the same living standard as us, then there is no doubt that our living standards will go down, unless we now try and make another type of progress and share things a bit better, and find ways to use resources more efficiently. It could mean everybody returning to a simple car like the early Golf, and I'd take that instead of no car, but that wont happen, what will happen is only well-off or rich people will be able to have cars.

The resources threshold is pretty much upon us, the future is going to bring massive energy price increases, and wages will go down or stagnate. Interesting times ahead, beware anyone who thinks we're going back to business as usual.

Of course I could be wrong!

Go easy JV...youami lives in NZ..gotta cut him some slack

VW sell cars that people want to buy. Progress is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be living in caves.

If you want to save rainforests, then buy one and look after it:

Click to expand...

That would have to be without doubt one of the most ignorant and stupid things i have ever heard. The car manufacturers sell things to make money, and there is the problem, everything is based solely on profits and greed and peoples welfare comes a distant second. The problems with the idiots running the world is that they think they own everything and we should all buy it back of them at stupid profit levels when everything on this planet is OURS collectively. I could write pages on this topic but with that attitude it would be a total waste of time. Most technologies are for technologies sake and we are drowning in our own selfishness. I am about to buy a house, 10 years ago i could have bought 4 for the same price, you can stick you greedy progress where the sun don't shine... :roll:

Mick

leadguitar_323 said:

VW sell cars that people want to buy. Progress is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be living in caves.

If you want to save rainforests, then buy one and look after it:

Click to expand...

That would have to be without doubt one of the most ignorant and stupid things i have ever heard. The car manufacturers sell things to make money, and there is the problem, everything is based solely on profits and greed and peoples welfare comes a distant second. The problems with the idiots running the world is that they think they own everything and we should all buy it back of them at stupid profit levels when everything on this planet is OURS collectively. I could write pages on this topic but with that attitude it would be a total waste of time. Most technologies are for technologies sake and we are drowning in our own selfishness. I am about to buy a house, 10 years ago i could have bought 4 for the same price, you can stick you greedy progress where the sun don't shine... :roll:

Mick

Click to expand...

Mick and JV, probably best never to discuss politics I guess. Anyway...

People are selfish, you can't change that. So how do you stop progress, or return us to simpler times? Government control and socialism? Geez, I thought we had the anniversary of the bringing down of the Berlin Wall last week to remind us why that was a bad idea.

The house price bubble was not what I would call progress either Mick. It was caused by central banks inflating the money supply. Get rid of the central banks and fiat money and you wouldn't have this problem. I believe that this would lead to a simpler (and possibly more environmentally friendly) society, as people wouldn't be able to borrow from their future, so would be forced to live within their means.

I very definitely am an Aussie, but stuck in NZ for the foreseeable future due to being under the thumb.

youami said:

Mick and JV, probably best never to discuss politics I guess. Anyway...

People are selfish, you can't change that. So how do you stop progress, or return us to simpler times? Government control and socialism? Geez, I thought we had the anniversary of the bringing down of the Berlin Wall last week to remind us why that was a bad idea.

The house price bubble was not what I would call progress either Mick. It was caused by central banks inflating the money supply. Get rid of the central banks and fiat money and you wouldn't have this problem. I believe that this would lead to a simpler (and possibly more environmentally friendly) society, as people wouldn't be able to borrow from their future, so would be forced to live within their means.

I very definitely am an Aussie, but stuck in NZ for the foreseeable future due to being under the thumb.

Click to expand...

I seriously didn't intend for my comments to come across as a personal attack (MUST remember to use more smileys).

You know this stuff isn't actually politics, it's ideologies and belief. I vaguely remember times when people were less selfish, and it seemed like it was cheaper and easier to get things done back then.

I like the idea about getting rid of the central banks, especially the Fed which has done a lousy job for the last 10 years - poor old Bernankie was handed a poison chalice. Generally, these banks don't have the tools or the power to do what they're supposed to do anymore, and there's always going to be questions over their independence. But, it's a big leap to put money supply power into the hands of corporations, especially after what some of them have done recently.

Do not forget what we've seen in the last couple of years, so you can recognise when it's coming again.

leadguitar_323 said:

VW sell cars that people want to buy. Progress is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be living in caves.

If you want to save rainforests, then buy one and look after it:

Click to expand...

That would have to be without doubt one of the most ignorant and stupid things i have ever heard. The car manufacturers sell things to make money, and there is the problem, everything is based solely on profits and greed and peoples welfare comes a distant second. The problems with the idiots running the world is that they think they own everything and we should all buy it back of them at stupid profit levels when everything on this planet is OURS collectively. I could write pages on this topic but with that attitude it would be a total waste of time. Most technologies are for technologies sake and we are drowning in our own selfishness. I am about to buy a house, 10 years ago i could have bought 4 for the same price, you can stick you greedy progress where the sun don't shine... :roll:

Mick

Click to expand...

Whenever people start to get heavy about Government, how it is crap and should be got rid of, it's always worth remembering that corporations are not in the business of building societies, only building profits. We could solve most of the problems by incorporating the costs of a product into the purchase price, but that will never happen whilst we have the planet to dump those costs into. You should check the economics of pollution, it's first principle is that there is a socially beneficial amount of pollution, and to find that level we need the market mechanism, which will include hangers-on, bloated management, speculators and numerous other pigs at the trough. :lol: