How far should you go selling a fake ?

Music stores and pawn shops where Tokai guitars have been spotted for sale. New or used.

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honeyboy
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Post by honeyboy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:45 pm

stratman323 wrote:Of course the problem wouldn't be so bad if Fenders weren't so easy to fake.
Yep. There's a factory in Ensenada, Mexico that has been making fake Fenders for years.
'In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.'

Jamieh
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Post by Jamieh » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:47 am

It's a funny thing all this fake business!

There are many points that immediately spring to mind that I don't really have answers to, but they bug me....

- Some guitars are SO obviously fakes but yet people still buy them!

- eBay/Paypal etc simply don't care as long as they get their money

- Who do you tell at Fender (Gibson really don't care in the Uk) - even as a Fender dealer I don't know who I should tell if I spot it!

- Why do eBay randomly removed totally innocent items that use Fenders trademarks (Fender own the legal right to pretty much every word relating to them, ie "Stratocaster", "Telecaster", "Strat, "Tele" etc, even stuff like "Str@t" and the like) I, and several other people I know have had stuff removed that has been listed as (for example) "Aria STG003 Strat Style Electric Guitar", there is no pretense there that the item is a Fender product, but it is the easiest way to describe it, yet eBay will delete these but leave the fakes... even if people are desperately trying to report them!! I even had an item listed as "G&L Legacy USA electric guitar by Leo Fender" removed because it used the word "Fender" but it is not a Fender guitar.... but it IS by Leo... and can you appeal to eBay?! Of course not! All you can do is relist it and hope they ignore it that time and don't remove your account!

It's all madness!

And to the original point of this thread... YES I hate these scum selling fake guitars, it makes it all seems such an underhand business to be in. However... from a business perspective it does help to encourage people to still use the services of their local guitar shop! :wink:

honeyboy
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Post by honeyboy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:24 am

Jamieh wrote:- Some guitars are SO obviously fakes but yet people still buy them!
Yep. Like the MIM Fenders and Squier line. Obvious fakes of the real (American) models.
Last edited by honeyboy on Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
'In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.'

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:34 am

honeyboy wrote: Like the MIM Fenders. Obvious fakes of the real (American) models.
Well if you're gonna look at it like that, the MIJ/CIJ guitars are all "fakes" too, but I think one or two people on here might disagree with that!

Incidentally, by whom is the state of Texas "occupied" :o

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Post by honeyboy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:47 am

Let's be honest with ourselves. So many knock-off companies were making a fortune with their designs that Fender had the brilliant idea of copying their own products. Moreover, they put their logo on them so that they are 'legit.'

What would you say if someone tried to sell you a MIM strat at the American Standard price?
'In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.'

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Post by honeyboy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:55 am

stratman323 wrote:
honeyboy wrote: Like the MIM Fenders. Obvious fakes of the real (American) models.
Incidentally, by whom is the state of Texas "occupied" :o
Like Iraq, Texas was invaded and occupied by the United States.

One of the conditions of statehood for the Republic of Texas was that Texas could secede from the US at any time if agreed upon by the popular vote of Texans.

By popular vote, Texas legally seceded upon the start of the War of Northern Aggression, (American Civil War) and returned to its previous legal status as the Republic of Texas.

Upon conclusion of the war, the tyrant Lincoln sent US occupational forces to Texas, disolved the government and declared that Texas was a US state again.

Texas is the only state that flies its flag at the same height as the US flag.

Texan school children recite a pledge of allegiance to Texas each morning.

All statues on Texas state buildings have their backs turned to the North as a sign of protest.

Thanks for asking.
'In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.'

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:19 am

OK, thanks for that. Texas is an interesting place, I find it amazing that one state can produce such extremes. On the one hand, some of the best blues guitarists of the 20th/21st Century (I'm sure I don't need to name them here...). On the other hand, George W. Bush, & the odd one or two reactionary people... :roll:

I hope to visit Austin, Memphis & New Orleans next year - the music tour, as we're calling it. Maybe Chicago as well, though it's a long way up there.

I'm sure you won't agree, but I find the idea of a "pledge of allegiance" of any kind to be rather worrying. I wouldn't be happy pledging allegiance to either Old Liz or Blair/Brown/whoever, I have my own views, and we're supposed to be a free society :o

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Re: How far should you go selling a fake ?

Post by BaggyPants » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:03 am

BillyWizz wrote:Gibson have recently been pulling Les Paul fakes on ebay
Gibson are the biggest sellers of Les Paul "fakes" :lol: Shoddy workmanship, bad finishing, uneven frets without proper crowning, heavy mahogany bodies with swiss cheese holes in them to make it light enough to use (from 2007 they are actually chambering them, the mahogany is that heavy) and neck joints that are complete crap. They sell these "fakes" as premium priced instruments to a gullible public 8)

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Re: How far should you go selling a fake ?

Post by togps » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:33 am

BaggyPants wrote:
Gibson are the biggest sellers of Les Paul "fakes" :lol: Shoddy workmanship, bad finishing, uneven frets without proper crowning, heavy mahogany bodies with swiss cheese holes in them to make it light enough to use (from 2007 they are actually chambering them, the mahogany is that heavy) and neck joints that are complete crap. They sell these "fakes" as premium priced instruments to a gullible public 8)
+1 !! BaggyPants

I'm able to document all this crab with facts and with pics.
(That's why I'm state all the time: Even every Tokai MIJ entry model does have better feature as every Gibson Les Paul Standard)
But, ... all this is legal :( ..... and Gibson may put its logo on the headstock .... :wink:

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Post by BillyWizz » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:50 pm

Jamieh wrote:
- Who do you tell at Fender (Gibson really don't care in the Uk) - even as a Fender dealer I don't know who I should tell if I spot it!
For Fender fakes on ebay : fenderlegalasst@fender.com

For Gibson fakes on ebay : Service@Gibson.com


Fender are pretty good, some weeks they will not react, others they will pull the listing within an hour.

Gibson are getting pretty hot at the moment due to the Chinese fakes, recently they have been pulling around 20 listings a week from ebay UK and have managed a couple of court cases using Trading Standards under the 1930 Trademarks Act.


Both Gibson and Fender do not have to go through ebay to pull listings, as the VERO owner they can pull direct, hence why eBay dont bother taking any notice of the reports.


Ebay user names for :

Fender : fenderlegal ( read the about me page )

Gibson : gibsonlegal ( hmmmm strange one this, I would avoid ! )

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:56 am

BillyWizz wrote: For Fender fakes on ebay : fenderlegalasst@fender.com

For Gibson fakes on ebay : Service@Gibson.com
So what about Tokai fakes?

BillyWizz
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Post by BillyWizz » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:57 am

stratman323 wrote:
BillyWizz wrote: For Fender fakes on ebay : fenderlegalasst@fender.com

For Gibson fakes on ebay : Service@Gibson.com
So what about Tokai fakes?

If Tokai registered its VERO interest with eBay then they could in theory pull them.

But I dont think they would have the nerve LOL !


Thats a bit like PRS pulling PRS copy's after the Single Cut fiasco :lol:

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:14 am

Maybe this is why we're seeing so many fake Tokais around now? Before I joined this forum, I couldn't understand why anyone would want to fake a Tokai when more money could be made faking a Fender or Gibson. Maybe this is one of the main reasons - there's nobody at Tokai who fights to protect the use of their name, so scammers can fake Tokais with impunity. :cry:

luis
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Post by luis » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:36 am

Some of us are trying to protect Tokai name stratman, and you can find how we pointed the fakes when we find any....

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:48 am

Sure, I know that, & I think you're all doing a great job. It just seems kinda funny that Tokai's name is being protected by a bunch of owners, enthusiasts and collectors, rather than the company that owns the name. :lol:

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