1979 Tokai Love Rock GT ???

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280526966095&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I think, this is a '90 Love Rock! 1979 the model designation were nevertheless " Les Paul Reborn".

What is your opinion?

Can't be a '79. Maybe an '89 with an older TRC?

I notice the seller is in Germany. Wait until togps finds out about this auction!

:lol:

RyanC said:

I notice the seller is in Germany. Wait until togps finds out about this auction!

:lol:

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hehe.....

I think the 900xxxx serial is the problem, which is correct for a 1979, but really i think is a 1990 and should have been 90xxxxx

The extra zero has thrown a curve ball.

Check the p/ups. Check the controls cavity for the PC board, or evidence that it has ever had one. Caps. I would want to see a few more pictures.

Big Ed said:

I think, this is a '90 Love Rock! 1979 the model designation were nevertheless " Les Paul Reborn".

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+1

Volker

greco_burst said:

RyanC said:

I notice the seller is in Germany. Wait until togps finds out about this auction!

:lol:

Click to expand...

hehe.....

I think the 900xxxx serial is the problem, which is correct for a 1979, but really i think is a 1990 and should have been 90xxxxx

The extra zero has thrown a curve ball.

Click to expand...

+1
90 can be 1979 or 1990

I have never seen a 1990 Love Rock, has anyone?
But this seems to be about right for a 1990 model. a 1979 model should have Les Paul Reborn silkscreened on the headstock. Also the tuners should be double ring, not single ring and the volume/tone knobs gold, not amber. The pickup covers are not original.
I find this very interesting, I will ask for more pics!
The

I've got a Tokai Love Rock with serial number 900XXXX, got it used.

I read somewhere here :
Third number indicated production run 1=1st run early, 2=second run late in year

Why would Tokai have a "0" as production run? Is this normal?

I contacted the guy selling the guitar mentioned above, telling him that it is probably a 1990, not a 1979, and he answered that it cant be a 1990, because his dad got the guitar from Japan long before 1990...?!?!

This is puzzling

I don't think the production run theory applies to 70s Tokai's for all 70s LPS have a 0 as third digit.

Well, I guess the 3rd number rule applies to a 1990 model, since the year is indicated by only the first 2 numbers...

BTW, heres where i read it:
http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html

i wrote the seller immediately yesterday the following text:

Hallo,

diese Paula kann nicht von 1979 sein - denn da hiesen die noch
"Les Paul Reborn", sp?ter dann "Reborn" - Love Rock kam erst Mitte 80.
Weiterhin hat sie keine Messingreiter am Steg, und auch das Tailpiece weisst nicht die leichte V-Form auf.
Ist dem am letzten Bund eine Bezeichnung eingestanzt wie 60, 80, etc.??

Hier eine Info von Tokai bez. der Seriennummer:

If you look closely at this list you will see that Tokais numbering system raises potential problems each time there's a change of decade. In particular, SN=00xxxxx (ie beginning with two zeros) may indicate either 1980 or 2000. So far the only way to distinguish these guitars is either from their fittings, or from general signs of ageing. A similar confusion also arises with "Inked Numbers" for dates 1980-1981 vs. 2000-2001, see below.

Somit d?rfte die Paula von 1990 sein oder gar ein koranisches Modell.

siehe auch Katalog von 1979:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-catalogs.html#1979

Insofern sollten Sie Ihre Angaben auf ebay ernsthaft ?berdenken.


NO RESPONSE till today so i sent this to ebay too.

Well, I guess the 3rd number rule applies to a 1990 model, since the year is indicated by only the first 2 numbers...

BTW, heres where i read it:
http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html

Click to expand...

Yep, I know where you got it from. These are assumptions made from gathering serial numbers, not facts. It also states that up to 1989 all LP models have a 0 as second digit which is also not true; in 1980 & 1981 there are LS50s & LS60s with ink stamped numbers, all having a 1 as second digit.

But getting back to this LP; it's virtually impossible that it is from 1979 because of the Love Rock on the headstock.

I possessed also a Tokai LS-50 year of construction 1990 in original state. Attention to the TRC and the serial number!

dongrosh said:

i wrote the seller immediately yesterday the following text:..............

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Hello dongrosh, I wondered if you would return to the forum. I agree it's really bad if people misrepresent Tokais they sell.

Just to give people a bit of background, in October 2007 (when I was relatively new to the forum) dongrosh sold me a 1980 Springy. All my private messages on here to dongrosh arranging to buy the guitar were clearly headed "ST80", as that was what I believed it to be. Just after I paid him the money (?750 in 2007!), it became obvious from comments in the thread discussing the guitar that my new ST80 was in fact an ST60 bought originally from togps. I protested to dongrosh that I would never have agreed to pay ?750 for an ST60 (I still wouldn't), & I asked to cancel the purchase. Several forum members joined in by requesting that dongrosh should not insist on completing the sale due to the misrepresentation (it hadn't been shipped at this stage).

dongrosh refused these requests, & insisted on sending me this very over-priced ST60, blaming any confusion on togps. People were unhappy, Ned locked the thread, dongrosh failed to answer any of my PMs, & had (I assumed) left the forum.

Now he's back. Just be wary folks if he tries to sell anything. He misrepresents what he sells, & he fails to abide by the usual standards of decency expected of members of this forum. He's a dishonest person.

It is the same person. Check the profile for dongrosh & then read his previous posts to confirm that what I just said is true.

Stratman . it?s all said - everbody can retrace the real story, esp.togps -
i phoned a lot with him at that time - and he was clear on my side as he was the one who was "sure" it?s an ST-80.
You bought an: "Springy Sound 1980 ST 60 (or 80)" - that was the original texture of the auction - i have all the messages, mails and so on -

STOP your accusations - i?m not dishonest - i?m a well known
and esteemed person here in germany and in the music scene.

I?m sorry again about the whole situation 3 years ago, and again
i can understand your annoyance, really - BUT, it?s not my fault
what happened, stay to what you have done and let it be. Please.

I think I will post on this thread just in time before Ned will close it. :wink:

The seller of this 1990 LP has added a comment to his Ebay auction that it most probably is a 1990 model due to several email contacts he had with another German Ebayer. Was that you dongrosh?

Here's a copy of one of the many PMs we exchanged. You will note that it's headed ST80, as they all were. There is no doubt that I bought it believing it was an ST80. When I realised it was an ST60, I asked to withdraw from the deal. This was your reply:

From: dongrosh
To: stratman323
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: ST80
Mike, i?m sad you are willing to be unhappy BEFORE testing the guitar.
Please understand my side -

I have never said it is Nitro, or it is SURE an St80, the link was not coming from ME - in the ebay site i wrote NOTHING from STxx.

You should ask your questions BEFORE making a deal.
Be sure i?m a fair man, i have no interest to trick someone.

I?m not willing to cancel the deal.
This guitar is worth that money, you can sell it again if
you do not like it, but i don?t think so.

Please understand my point of view.

Wilfried


Many leading forum members agreed that it was wrong of you to insist on shipping the guitar to me simply because you already had my money in your bank account. I hope you enjoyed spending my money?

As for "This guitar is worth that money", you show me another ST60 that has sold for anything like ?750 in the last five years.

You conned me dongrosh, as you well know. I acted in good faith - you took advantage. That's not how members of this forum behave. You may be "esteemed" in Germany, but you're not on here.

Why don't you just go away?

Anyone here specialized in mediation?

I don't agree wilfried has to go just because you want to mike..

jacco said:

Anyone here specialized in mediation?

I don't agree wilfried has to go just because you want to mike..

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I remember this one well. Even if there was no intention to mislead, there was equally no effort to tell the truth, it was obvious that Mike thought he was buying an ST80, and not once did the seller tell him it might not be.

It was established it was an ST60 only after Mike sent the money, but before Dongrosh had posted the guitar. The decent thing to do would be to call the deal off, but Dongrosh insisted he send the guitar, pocketed what was an extortionate amount of money for an ST60, and propmptly dissapeared from the forum for three years.

I agree he doesn't need to go just because Mike wants him too, but he certainly won't be getting a warm welcome back from me!

jacco said:

I think I will post on this thread just in time before Ned will close it. :wink:

The seller of this 1990 LP has added a comment to his Ebay auction that it most probably is a 1990 model due to several email contacts he had with another German Ebayer. Was that you dongrosh?

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yes, that was me, it told him that IMO it can not be an 79?r as they IMO
all has been Les Paul Reborns/later Reborns - i?m not sure about 1990,
the serial number seems to say 1990 but i?m not a expert to say it?s 100%
1990, i?m just (relative) sure it?s not a 79 as i own two 79 since years
and beside the decal there are some other things like the Tailpiece and the
saddles and so on which looks not 79......

jacco said:

I think I will post on this thread just in time before Ned will close it. :wink:

The seller of this 1990 LP has added a comment to his Ebay auction that it most probably is a 1990 model due to several email contacts he had with another German Ebayer. Was that you dongrosh?

Click to expand...

That was I.

However the salesman still states, it is a 1979er, which was converted ???
Also the word choice was quite crude in its emails.