I`ve just about had enough of this fakery.

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bluejeannot

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Third time this joker has tried to pass this off as a Tokai.I have informed him 3 times and contacted E bay 3 times,is there nothing we can do to stop this?Gabe. : :roll:p.s this guitar is featured on the E bay section of the Registry, fer crise sakes!
 
bluejeannot said:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270534425512
Sorry here it is :oops: Gabe.

They are becoming quite brazen arent they? The only thing Tokai about that piece of junk is the name.
 
I stopped caring about such things.

If people don't research before they buy something they dispose themselves to a risk and therefor has to take that risk.
 
Koubayashi said:
I stopped caring about such things.

If people don't research before they buy something they dispose themselves to a risk and therefor has to take that risk.

That attitude is fine for peoples' hobbies (like guitar) but imagine if we all had to research EVERYTHING before making a purchase! We wouldn't have time to work to get the money to buy the stuff... :)
 
JVsearch said:
Koubayashi said:
I stopped caring about such things.

If people don't research before they buy something they dispose themselves to a risk and therefor has to take that risk.

That attitude is fine for peoples' hobbies (like guitar) but imagine if we all had to research EVERYTHING before making a purchase! We wouldn't have time to work to get the money to buy the stuff... :)

I research most things I buy.
Food, clothes, shoes and more.

For example: I don't buy Chicita's bananas cause I don't like the company, I don't buy American products cause I don't like American politics and I don't buy food with certain E-codes.
 
CliffsComicWorld said:
Wait a minute... Koubayashi ......... you do own Gibson guitars...

I never bought a new one :wink:

It is ofcourse very hard to totally avoid American products.
Like this: I don't buy Nike, I buy Adidas.
 
We live in a totally interconnected world,thousands of Japanese people will have shares in U.S companies and vice versa.I doubt that your trade boycott will affect U.S foreign policy one iota.Many people object to the Japanese policy on whaling ,or the Chinese policy on Tibet.My own country`s conduct leaves a lot to be desired.There are other more effective ways of changing a country`s behaviour. Gabe.
 
bluejeannot said:
We live in a totally interconnected world,thousands of Japanese people will have shares in U.S companies and vice versa.I doubt that your trade boycott will affect U.S foreign policy one iota.Many people object to the Japanese policy on whaling ,or the Chinese policy on Tibet.My own country`s conduct leaves a lot to be desired.There are other more effective ways of changing a country`s behaviour. Gabe.

Lets stay OT :D

There are two reasons for me to avoid American products:
1. Ethical reasons
2. If I avoid made in USA products I contribute to cut jobs in America.

Nr:2 is cynical but the only way to change the "American way" is to create a vaccum where American people has no jobs. No jobs = upset people = conflicts = change.

And back on topic.
This thread highlights the issue of fakes.
My personal view is that the seller is 100% responsible to give an accurate description of the item he/she wants to sell.
The only excuse I can think of is lack of knowledge.
However, the honest seller will answer questions and provide additional photos on request.
The mainproblem with E-bay and Yafu- (Yahoo in Japanese :D ) is that the systems they use are made to protect the sellers.
On Yahoo the seller adds the little "no claim no return) and keep the back free.
There are so many sellers with nearly perfect ratings that I never buy from cause I know they are in the grey zone.

The auction sites would lose a lot of cash if they used an honest and transparent rating system.
 
Do we have a contact email for Tokai for them to contact eBay and ask the sale to stop as copyright owner? This happens for other fake products
 
Ian, i have spoken with Tokai on several occasions about these fakes and they never ever expressed any interest in doing anything about this problem. Tokai is a relatively small company and sells everything it makes and in fact, has trouble keeping up with demand for their products so i don't think this worries them that much. I read somewhere that the Tokai president was at a music expo somewhere and he approached the owner of one of the factories that made the fakes in Korea and told him he was unhappy with what was going on and apparently that is when the Korean fakes stopped being made.

Mick
 
leadguitar_323 said:
Ian, i have spoken with Tokai on several occasions about these fakes and they never ever expressed any interest in doing anything about this problem. Tokai is a relatively small company and sells everything it makes and in fact, has trouble keeping up with demand for their products so i don't think this worries them that much. I read somewhere that the Tokai president was at a music expo somewhere and he approached the owner of one of the factories that made the fakes in Korea and told him he was unhappy with what was going on and apparently that is when the Korean fakes stopped being made.

Mick

Kind of sarcastic to ask someone to stop make copies of another copy :D
 
Koubayashi said:
leadguitar_323 said:
Ian, i have spoken with Tokai on several occasions about these fakes and they never ever expressed any interest in doing anything about this problem. Tokai is a relatively small company and sells everything it makes and in fact, has trouble keeping up with demand for their products so i don't think this worries them that much. I read somewhere that the Tokai president was at a music expo somewhere and he approached the owner of one of the factories that made the fakes in Korea and told him he was unhappy with what was going on and apparently that is when the Korean fakes stopped being made.

Mick

Kind of sarcastic to ask someone to stop make copies of another copy :D

No, it's entirely fair to ask somebody not to put a Tokai logo on a product that is not a Tokai? :wink:
 
JVsearch said:
Koubayashi said:
leadguitar_323 said:
Ian, i have spoken with Tokai on several occasions about these fakes and they never ever expressed any interest in doing anything about this problem. Tokai is a relatively small company and sells everything it makes and in fact, has trouble keeping up with demand for their products so i don't think this worries them that much. I read somewhere that the Tokai president was at a music expo somewhere and he approached the owner of one of the factories that made the fakes in Korea and told him he was unhappy with what was going on and apparently that is when the Korean fakes stopped being made.

Mick

Kind of sarcastic to ask someone to stop make copies of another copy :D

No, it's entirely fair to ask somebody not to put a Tokai logo on a product that is not a Tokai? :wink:

Then Tokai should consider to remove the tokai logo from a design that belongs to another company :wink:
 
Koubayashi said:
JVsearch said:
Koubayashi said:
leadguitar_323 said:
Ian, i have spoken with Tokai on several occasions about these fakes and they never ever expressed any interest in doing anything about this problem. Tokai is a relatively small company and sells everything it makes and in fact, has trouble keeping up with demand for their products so i don't think this worries them that much. I read somewhere that the Tokai president was at a music expo somewhere and he approached the owner of one of the factories that made the fakes in Korea and told him he was unhappy with what was going on and apparently that is when the Korean fakes stopped being made.

Mick

Kind of sarcastic to ask someone to stop make copies of another copy :D

No, it's entirely fair to ask somebody not to put a Tokai logo on a product that is not a Tokai? :wink:

Then Tokai should consider to remove the tokai logo from a design that belongs to another company :wink:

Not necessary - the LP body is free for everybody, the only thing Tokai can't do is sell guitars with the open book headstock in the USA.

It's obvious to anyone but the very one-eyed, that Tokai took Gibson's design in its entirety. There would be no Reborns/Love Rocks without the Gibson Les Paul, it's a slam dunk. But the 50s were a simpler time and Gibson didn't think of a world wide trademark, so 25 years later when the trouble started with Tokai the law said it's too late to protect most of the design - you get your logo and that headstock, same for Fender.

Therefore Tokai is not legally obligated to do anything different to what they're doing today, that's the facts. It may seem unfair to Gibson, but the problem is that there's only so many shapes that can be made into a comfortable guitar, and to have one or two companies owning 90% of the basic shapes was rightly, not somewhere the court was going to go. I mean the waist and back of a LP looks like a small acoustic anyway, so maybe the designer of that should get paid as well?
 
SO...... If Gibson holds a copy right to the open headstock in USA... Why is it that new Tokais are sold to the USA buyers and used ones are sold over and over?...... :eek: ......... Can you and I be taken to court?
 
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