Trying to Date / Identify My New (Old) Burny

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custom53

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I was told it is a '78 FLC... 5 peice inlay. No volute in back of headstock. Has fret nibs. 2 screw TRC. Haven't pulled the pups out yet to check for serial number (if any)... I have the original pups but may leave the EMGs in...
Plays like a dream...!
Any help would be appreciated...!



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It's a LC70RR. Made from 1983 until 1991. In 1990 & 1991 it's a LC75RR.
Yours is pre 1989 because of the normal split diamond on the headstock and not the 'lightning bolt'.
Body has a maple top and mahogany back.
Also: TRC, volume/tone knobs and switch tip are not original > knobs should gold speed knobs, switch tip amber.
Nice guitar!
 
They never made the 5 piece diamond past 85/86 however so that narrows it down a bit ;) My Burny "lightning bolt" actually had a date stamp from 1987 in the cavity with a winged TRC.
 
Udonitron said:
They never made the 5 piece diamond past 85/86 however so that narrows it down a bit ;) My Burny "lightning bolt" actually had a date stamp from 1987 in the cavity with a winged TRC.

Pics please!!!
 
le juge said:
According to the Fernandes catalogues, the split diamond changes in 1986/1987.

No, you're wrong. According to the Fernandes catalogs they change in 1989.. check for yourself, they recently released all of their vintage catalogs > www.fernandes.co.jp
That's why it's important that Udo backs up his statement with pics!
 
jacco said:
It's a LC70RR. Made from 1983 until 1991. In 1990 & 1991 it's a LC75RR.
Yours is pre 1989 because of the normal split diamond on the headstock and not the 'lightning bolt'.
Body has a maple top and mahogany back.
Also: TRC, volume/tone knobs and switch tip are not original > knobs should gold speed knobs, switch tip amber.
Nice guitar!

Yes, the knobs, pots, tip and pups aren't original. EMG 81 and 85 (Zakk Wylde). I do have the original knobs, pots and pups though. Thanks...!
 
jacco said:
le juge said:
According to the Fernandes catalogues, the split diamond changes in 1986/1987.

No, you're wrong. According to the Fernandes catalogs they change in 1989.. check for yourself, they recently released all of their vintage catalogs > www.fernandes.co.jp
That's why it's important that Udo backs up his statement with pics!

Oh boy...what would I have to gain by lying about this, really? 1st thing you of all people should know about these guitars is the catalogs were never right. Every time we think we know something as gospel about these guitars, someone comes in with a guitar that changes everything we previously believed. Many of us can give you examples. ;) Also you will notice many of those Fernandes catalogs show the exact same model & photo for several consecutive years...they were lazy and never updated the info and pics so I would not necessarily trust those catalogs as proof

I will see if I have some pics of that cavity. I sold that guitar over a year ago.
 
Udonitron said:
jacco said:
le juge said:
According to the Fernandes catalogues, the split diamond changes in 1986/1987.

No, you're wrong. According to the Fernandes catalogs they change in 1989.. check for yourself, they recently released all of their vintage catalogs > www.fernandes.co.jp
That's why it's important that Udo backs up his statement with pics!

Oh boy...what would I have to gain by lying about this, really? 1st thing you of all people should know about these guitars is the catalogs were never right. Every time we think we know something as gospel about these guitars, someone comes in with a guitar that changes everything we previously believed. Many of us can give you examples. ;) Also you will notice many of those Fernandes catalogs show the exact same model & photo for several consecutive years...they were lazy and never updated the info and pics so I would not necessarily trust those catalogs as proof

I will see if I have some pics of that cavity. I sold that guitar over a year ago.

Udo I am not implying you are lying, not at all!
I have been a Burny enthousiast about ten years ago and have gathered a lot of info back then. Since 1 year my interest has been renewed and I haven't seen Burny's with S/N in the post 1981-pre 1991 period, so this is very interesting.
Of course you are right that deviations from the catalogs exist but then you are talking mostly about Greco and maybe Tokai. Burny is fairly consistent.
The Burny catalogs are the same for RLC in 1984 & 1985, then they change in 1986 and again in 1987 and 1989. So if there was a change in the diamond before 1989 we should have seen that. You and I have had this kind of discussion before over the past months and it's the first time you say you had a deviation to this, so I am a little surprised, that's all.
 
jacco said:
le juge said:
According to the Fernandes catalogues, the split diamond changes in 1986/1987.

No, you're wrong. According to the Fernandes catalogs they change in 1989.. check for yourself, they recently released all of their vintage catalogs > www.fernandes.co.jp
That's why it's important that Udo backs up his statement with pics!
Pictures on catalogues weren't updated since 1989 but they have changed the guitar before.
I've recently bought a RLJ58-80 to the japanese first owner on YJ, he told me he had bought the guitar in 1987 (he has checked the bill), this guitar have the modified TRC and does no longer appear in the 1989 catalogue... so I checked for myself.

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I also have more than 10 Burnys in my hands, from my own experience, this kind of TRC appears in 1986/1987 (and haven't seen a RLC with a regular TRC...).
 
le juge said:
jacco said:
le juge said:
According to the Fernandes catalogues, the split diamond changes in 1986/1987.

No, you're wrong. According to the Fernandes catalogs they change in 1989.. check for yourself, they recently released all of their vintage catalogs > www.fernandes.co.jp
That's why it's important that Udo backs up his statement with pics!
Pictures on catalogues weren't updated since 1989 but they have changed the guitar before.
I've recently bought a RLJ58-80 to the japanese first owner on YJ, he told me he had bought the guitar in 1987 (he has checked the bill), this guitar have the modified TRC and does no longer appear in the 1989 catalogue... so I checked for myself.

321_1278444632.jpg


I also have more than 10 Burnys in my hands, from my own experience, this kind of TRC appears in 1986/1987 (and haven't seen a RLC with a regular TRC...).

Ok, let's work together here..
We were talking about the split diamond/lightning bolt transition on Burny RLC's. You said according to the catalog this changes in 1986/1987; that's not true > according to the catalog it changes in 1989, look for yourself.
Yes, a lot of pictures were not updated but interestingly enough in 1986 they added new pictues of RLC's with split diamond and normal TRC, so this these weren't changed in 1986 but later.
I have seen several RLC with original bell TRC, I have one now, a RLC65. I can't show pics now for my friend is touring with it. I will when he returns.
Udo says he had a lightning bolt RLC with winged TRC AND S/N form 1987. So that would be absolute proof for a transition in 1987. Proof can't be proof unless there's pics.
Ok, now regarding your RLJ with winged TRC; that fits in with Udo's 1987 RLC. Still would like to see the bill of the original owner for proof :wink:
 
Ok, you want a RLC75 from 1986 with a S/N 6XXXX, I have another one from 1987 with a S/N 7XXXX if you want...

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When I say "according to the catalogue", I say the catalogue seems to be wrong, regarding to my own experience not on forum informations...(I'm not speaking about the only way of the modified diamond and wings TRC, I'm talking about the general built, different runs of Custom were made in different factories...).
Now, I have never seen a modified diamond with a regular TRC, always with a wings TRC.
 
Yeah...same goes for my Burny RLG-60 Gold Top. That too is an 86 and has a winged TRC however...something like a TRC is easily swappable and it is possible many liked that one more in Japan so they swapped them out on their personal guitars. I see from 1985 to 1988 the same photos for the 70RR guitar.

LC-70RR
1985 - Page 23
1986 - Page 34
1987 - Page 41
1988 - Page 43

They also used the same exact photos for the LG-65JW for 3 years.

I would not rely on the catalogs. I think Fernandes made such small changes to their line up over the course of 5 or 6 years that they just did not bother updating pics for the sake of a truss cover or inlay. I honestly believe the diamond inlays and winged covers started in or around 1985-1986 (they are like cars making the following year models in the previous year).
 
Udonitron said:
They never made the 5 piece diamond past 85/86 however so that narrows it down a bit ;) My Burny "lightning bolt" actually had a date stamp from 1987 in the cavity with a winged TRC.
I remember that white Burny custom you had. Remember? You argued that it was an 85' not 87', because of the serial number starting with a 5? But, in my experience, serials numbers in the bridge cavity are usually from the 90's. You had a RLG-70 that started with a 7 serial, that you thought was from 87' But, I thought it was from the 90's aswell since, the RLG-70'S don't show up til' the 90's. Same with the RLC-75, they don't show up til 91'. I for one, try not go by catalogs as being gospel but, would they use the wrong catalog pic for 5 years in a row, if the RLC-75's or RLG-70's came out in 86? I still tend to agree with, Nil's Burny info page on serial numbers in the bridge pickup cavity being from the 90's and winged TRC and lightning bolts starting in 88'. http://www.japanguitars.co.uk/burny%20info.html
 
hi
i got a burny lp jr that i am 100 % sure is from the early 80 and it has a serial number in the pickup cavity and a firebird with serial in the pickup cavity that i am 100 % sure is from the 90s ... i know they are not lp .... but i belive the ones with serial in the pickup cavity are made at the same factory ..... dont know witch factory ..... just my ide :D :D :D
all the best
otto
 
Otto, Long time no see! :D I've seen photos of some early 80's Burny's with serial numbers in the neck pickup cavity. IIRC, I think they had a different font/typeface than the later ones though? Most of the 90's, I think are in the bridge cavity.
 
hi
yes .,,,,that is right ,,,, just look here ,,,
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16920
a burny lp jr with a serial on the back of head and super grade on the front of head :D :D :D :D
all the best
otto
 
Yeah! I love Jr's. Got another from David! I've seen a few with the Supergrade logo. I'd love to have that one. BTW, I did show you that FLG-90 I had didn't I? It looks like the twin to yours, I changed the tuners and put doubl;e rings back on..... :D :D
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hi
yes ....they looks like twins :D :D great guitars ,,,,,,, :D :D
i really like the early burny to death :D :D
all the best
otto
 

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