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Tokai made Greco

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:48 am
by LessPoul
Hi

I'm new here and own only Fender and Gibson guitars - standards as well as custom shop guitars.

But - I have - like many others - gained interest in these fine japan guitarclones. They seem to be of great quality. Some even as good as a real Fender or Gibson - if that is true, it is amazing.

I have a question:

What about the Tokai made Greco guitars - are they as good as regular made Grecos (I'm talking only japan here).

The reason I ask is this:
I have read about the Greco EGC-1000 Les Paul Custom - and wow it looks like a real beauty. And if the quality is equal to the real deal - then it is beyond my grasp.

And the Tokai made Greco EGC-75 - is that a guitar that can be compared to a real Gibson LP Custom? And is it as good as the EGC-1000?

Hope to hear from some experts here - since I am not.

Cheers

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:16 am
by muccax
hi
i got 2 egc 75 ... a lp jr ... and 2 sg ,,,
all tokai made greco :D :D :D
the egc 75 has a more slim 60 neck that a greco
the are very well build ,,,,, cant say the are better than a greco
but no problems with the quality
all the best
otto

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:31 am
by LessPoul
Ok Thank you for the info.

To me it seems that there are two kinds of quality:

1: Solid as a rock all the way - top notch, no matter if it is a 1.000 dollar or 4.000 dollar axe

2: Good quality for the money - meaning that a cheaper guitar is lesser quality than a more expensive one.

I really need a guitar that I can play live without being afraid of it falling apart. On the other hand - I am aware that Gibson guitars are expensive because they bear the name "Gibson".
And Greco is cheaper because they bear the name "Greco".
But they are of same build quality?

If we say that the Greco guitars are Gibson-like, is the Tokai made Greco then Epiophone-like?

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:55 am
by muccax
hi ,,,
no no no ..... nothing like that :D :D :D
and egc 75 would cost 75000 yen ...
and a egc 1000 would be 100000 yen ...
so a egc 75 is not a low end model
maybe fujigen (the factory that build greco ibanez and orville fender japan) was behind building guitars and got tokai to build them :D :D
who knows :D
when fujigen did not have time to build guitar ,,,, they just got a nother factory to build for them ,,,,,
all the best
otto

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:04 am
by LessPoul
Ahhh ok, so that's how it works with the model numbers.

But wouldn't it then be more accurate if the model was named EGC-100 if the price was 100.000? Just a thought...

Well well, I just need to try one out I guess. Still hard to believe that they can actually compare to custom Gibsons - but hey, we'll see.

Thanks again for the info.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:22 am
by muccax
hi
tokai use ls 75-120-150-200

greco super real serie use eg 500-600-1000

mint serie eg58-60 eg 59-100 format
:D :D

just to give you a ide how it works
here is a link to greco catalogs
http://psyco.jp/greco/cata.html
all the best
otto

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:54 am
by Darth Vader
Here's what I think. (just my opinion, I may be wrong)

The Japanese copies that we are all raving about are mainly the late 70s to early 80s poduction guitars. Gibsons were too expensive for Asians(still are) so the Japanese decided to build their own. And they did a good job too.

Also, that was during the Norlin Era and some of the Gibson models were frowned upon to say the least.

I have 2 Grecos (1984 EG59-65 nd 1981 EGC-800).
I sold my Epiphone Les Paul in a flash after I got the EG59-65.
The EGC-800 has a 3pc maple top and 1pc mahogany back(i tried hard to find a joint but cant seem to find any)
It also has fret edge binding like a Gibson. The pickups and electronics are good.
I don't think there's any difference in quality between the Tokai or Fujigen made guitars. They just shared production capacity. (experts, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

In short, they are way better than the current MIC Epiphones (the MIJ Epiphones are a different story)
The top of the range like EG-1000 and above are as good as a Gibson. The lower range are still pretty good, especially for gigs.
Don't worry, they won't fall apart on you. :wink:

DV

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:35 am
by LessPoul
I have owned an Ibanez made at the Fujigen plant - that was a great guitar. It was an RG7620 made in 2001.

But if the Made by Tokai Greco is not a "toy-guitar" and is plenty good to be gigged with (solid construction, stays in tune well), I think I will pull the trigger on it.

Unfortunately I can't try them all...

I need a workhorse and it sounds like the EGC 75 Tokai made Greco is just that.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:46 am
by soundcreation
I've got a super real EGC1000. It's a fantastic guitar. Near 11 pounds so it's a bit on the heavy side but it still resonates pretty well.

Better than a Gibson? Depends. To blanket a statement to make. I played an early 80's Gibson Custom that was BY FAR one of the worst guitars I've ever played in my life. Dead Dead Dead. But I've also played some very nice new Gibsons so there you go.

Personally I haven't played as nice a Gibson as my greco though. To be fair I've never played a Custom Shop Custom though.

If I was buying site unseen (which I do) I would never consider a gibson. A lot of the internet stuff about gibson is BS but at the same time they obviously do have their issues with consistency. MIJ just don't seem to have the same kinds of quality control problems.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:00 pm
by sarge40
The EGC-75 will not fall apart on you, and is far from being a toy guitar. This is a quality Tokai-made product, and as I stated in the other thread, I prefer this particular axe over all of my Gibsons.

I have to say though, I always thought that it was an EGC-75, because it emulates a 1975 LP Custom, not because the price was 75,000 yen, like Tokai model designations reflect. Maybe I've been wrong all this time.

Either way, its a great guitar and you shouldn't worry about it not being as gig-worthy as a Gibson.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:04 pm
by LessPoul
sarge40 wrote:The EGC-75 will not fall apart on you, and is far from being a toy guitar. This is a quality Tokai-made product, and as I stated in the other thread, I prefer this particular axe over all of my Gibsons.

I have to say though, I always thought that it was an EGC-75, because it emulates a 1975 LP Custom, not because the price was 75,000 yen, like Tokai model designations reflect. Maybe I've been wrong all this time.

Either way, its a great guitar and you shouldn't worry about it not being as gig-worthy as a Gibson.
Thank you very much for sharing.

I will go ahead and give it a try - it looks like an amazing guitar.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:40 pm
by sarge40
Also, keeping in mind that the bang-for-the-buck factor is generally greater for the MIJ guitars, vs. Gibsons, if the EGC-75 went for 75000 yen in 1989, it cost approximately $920 USD. Factoring in inflation, that $920 USD in 1989 was equivalent to about $810 USD in 1986, when I purchased my Gibson LP Standard brand new in the Protector case for $650 USD, and I could have bought a new custom for about $200 more if I recall correctly.

What I am getting at is that the going price for that guitar would have exceeded the price of my Gibson LP Standard and about matched that of a Gibson LP Custom. Given the fact that you were generally getting more for your money with the MIJ guitars, the EGC-75 is by no means a lower-end guitar.

I don't think too many people here in the United States were shelling out that kind of cash for a MIJ guitar back then when the MIJ guitars had no appreciation, and when they could get a Gibson in the same price range. There were tons of lower end MIJ guitars (usually surprisingly good guitars) in the U.S. market in the 1980s, but I don't think that the higher end MIJ guitars were appreciated back then. Probably why most of these higher end MIJ guitars remained overseas (where Gibsons remain overpriced) until today, when they are starting to get their recognition as superior instruments.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:40 am
by Mick51
sarge40 wrote:.. if the EGC-75 went for 75000 yen in 1989, it cost approximately $920 USD. ...
What I am getting at is that the going price for that guitar would have exceeded the price of my Gibson LP Standard and about matched that of a Gibson LP Custom.
No, you are applying current JPY to USD rates to a historical price.

I can't get to 1989 rates. I do know that in early 1980, there were approximately 200 JPY to the USD; and, by January, 1990, about 140 - 145 JPY to 1 USD. At the rate of 140 JPY to USD, 75000 JPY would equate to about $535 (USD).

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:02 pm
by sarge40
Mick51 wrote:
sarge40 wrote:.. if the EGC-75 went for 75000 yen in 1989, it cost approximately $920 USD. ...
What I am getting at is that the going price for that guitar would have exceeded the price of my Gibson LP Standard and about matched that of a Gibson LP Custom.
No, you are applying current JPY to USD rates to a historical price.

I can't get to 1989 rates. I do know that in early 1980, there were approximately 200 JPY to the USD; and, by January, 1990, about 140 - 145 JPY to 1 USD. At the rate of 140 JPY to USD, 75000 JPY would equate to about $535 (USD).
You know Mick, my fuzzy math skills are without rival. :lol: You are right. I converted 2011 JPY to USD and then factored in 2011 to 1989 deflation.

I suppose that the point that I was trying to make is that most people who didn't know the value of the MIJ guitars back in the 80s, would be very reluctant to shell out good money on a MIJ guitar, and more likely to pay more for a recognized brand MIA guitar. Its probably why most of the higher end MIJ guitars remained overseas, where Gibsons cost way more than they do here in the States.

No serial Greco egc 75

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:11 pm
by LessPoul
Hi

If there is no serial number on either the back of the headstock, or in the pickup cavity - and no stamping on the pickups. Is it then for sure a Tokai made Greco from japan?

Cheers