Nitro Vs Poly

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bluebird007
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Nitro Vs Poly

Post by bluebird007 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:34 am

I know this subject is an old, but still on going debate. I want to bring it back to the spot light for one more time.

Wats is the tonal difference between a nitro finish OBG and a poly finish Orville. Think like using the same electronics and hardware in both guitars(pickup, wiringbridge, stop tail, tuners). Lets just worry abt the wood now. Same wood, different finish.............Wat is the tone diffence?

Why are the sellers asking way too much price for OBG than orville?
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Post by deadonkey » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:34 pm

in my opinion, NONE

it may matter on an acoustic, i can believe that... but on an electric...

you're full of it if you believe that.

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Post by The batlord » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:58 pm

Toneality shouldn't have anything to do with finishes. Asthetics and durability would be the only factors.

From what I understand, ObG do not use the same electronics as Orvilles. The wood materials were selected from the best pieces available and the finish is also a factor. Basically, the ObG are as close to Gibsons as possible while the Orvilles follow a more 'Epiphone route' (cheaper materials, etc) to recreating them.

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Re: Nitro Vs Poly

Post by Innadaze » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:35 pm

bluebird007 wrote:I know this subject is an old, but still on going debate. I want to bring it back to the spot light for one more time.

Wats is the tonal difference between a nitro finish OBG and a poly finish Orville. Think like using the same electronics and hardware in both guitars(pickup, wiringbridge, stop tail, tuners). Lets just worry abt the wood now. Same wood, different finish.............Wat is the tone diffence?

Why are the sellers asking way too much price for OBG than orville?
I now have over 30 OBGs (here are a few.......) I've added about 10 more--another 335, EX and LPC, and several LPS and LPJRs since I took those pics, and don't worry, I'm not selling--they're all keepers!

I personally like nitro a lot better than poly but that's not the big difference between Orvilles and OBGs.

I did get an "Orville" (just 'Orville' not OBG) from a guy in Japan about a year or so ago. It was a tobacco-burst LPS that looked like Slash's signature model. Looks-wise and play-ability, it was a very nice guitar but sound and build-wise, materials and hardware it was not even in the same league as an OBG. I knew from the very first time I played it, I was going to sell it. Like I said, that Orville was a very nice guitar but there are very valid reasons why the OBGs cost more and they're a bargain at that compared with current U.S. Gibsons and especially ones from the same period.

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Post by Schneidas » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:08 am

there's absolutely no difference in tone between a Poly finish or a Nitro finish. The only thing that could influence a guitar e.g. in its resonance is how thick the finish is applied. A thick layer of Nitro is as bad for the 'tone' of your guitar as a a thick layer of Poly.
As batlord said, the only difference is durabilty and shinyness...

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Post by bluebird007 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:43 am

WOW Innadaze,
Tats alot of OBG. where did u buy all these from, directly from japan or ebay?

Am gonna ask one more thing inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price.
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Post by villager » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:45 pm

well there will be a difference after the years go by, as the nitro allows the wood to continue ageing, and therefore changing its character and tone, a poly finish does not do this...

whether its an audible change is a hotly debated point..........

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Post by The batlord » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:48 pm

I have read and discussed that point several times with players, luthiers and the rest. So far, I have yet to find anyone that can provide anything to substantiate the claim and the vast majority, by my experience, say the result is negligible if perceptible in the least.

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Post by villager » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:41 pm

nitro feels nicer though ..especially when its aged a bit...

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Post by bluebird007 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:02 pm

Am going to ask anothe question inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price
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Innadaze
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Post by Innadaze » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:25 pm

bluebird007 wrote:WOW Innadaze,
Tats alot of OBG. where did u buy all these from, directly from japan or ebay?

Am gonna ask one more thing inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price.
About my OBGs: My Dad's a retired Air force pilot and we were stationed at Yokota (in the wayback) when I was a kid. I bought an OBG LPS in '93 while visiting a friend who still lives there. I just thought it was a great LP for the $$. Who knew they were going to stop making them and they'd become collectible(?) I didn't buy another one until about 5 or six years ago when they started to show up on Ebay but I've gotten most of mine from little hole-in-the-wall guitar stores in Japan.

Actually, the first Japanese guitar I ever bought "new" was a flat-top Epiphone acoustic back in 1971. Everyone I knew back then always referred to Epiphones as "Japanese Gibsons" never really taking into consideration that Epiphone had been an American guitar maker for a jillion years. I still have that guitar and play it regularly although it's gotten a little beat up over the years.

Oh, and OBGs aren't my only MIJs....., and there's also a few Americans lying around the house as well.

A couple of other things: What Villager says about the nitro as a guitar gets older is my experience also and my black OBG LPC is all maho and I've played it out more than any of the other OBGs--if that tells you anything about the tone, i.e., (it's not to heavy and sounds good live!).
Last edited by Innadaze on Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by The batlord » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:27 pm

bluebird007 wrote:What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price
The original Gibson LPCs (1954 - 1959) were made from mahogany only; neck, backs and tops inclusive. The vast majority were made this way although there have been some exceptions observed. Gibson started using maple in '68 I believe but used maple tops on other models as early as the first LPs were produced. They also started producing 'pancake' models in '69. Personally, I actually prefer the sound of these original guitars to those with maple caps and I believe that is what makes them sound better. Of course, that's just a personal preference but is a reason why I really love my ObG LPC which is as close to the original thing as possible.

Maple is very hard, heavy and dense which has the tonal quality of creating a very 'bright' sound while also increasing sustain. Mahogany, on the other hand, is very 'warm' and 'full' sounding while also has the property of creating good sustain. For reference, my ears define "warm" and "bright" qualities as the difference in sounds made by single coils versus humbuckers; Les Pauls and Strats or even a Gibson/Fender comparison. I much prefer Gibson's warmth over Fenders "bright" qualities. Of course, with the average LP using both, you get somewhat of a hybrid tone but more heavily on the mahogany side of things.


While quite brief and simplified, here is an informative and interesing site on Wood Descriptions.

Here is an interesting and extensive site on just about everything about Vintage Guitars including Gibson and Fenders.

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Post by bluebird007 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 pm

R u telling that mahagony OBG sound darker and lighter in weight than maple/mahagony obg. So does it sound like SG coz they are made of whole mahogony and are light weigh. I have never heard a SG sound darker than a les paul.

Which one will u prefer if u have a choice to make whole mahagony OBG or a maple/mahagony OBG.
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Post by sneakyjapan » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:14 am

I`m gonna go with the feel thing too....on the lacquer finished guitars I own, the necks actually feel like wood. Maybe my ears juat aren`t refined enough to hear a difference but I sure feel it.

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Post by The batlord » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:31 am

bluebird007 wrote: R u telling that mahagony OBG sound darker and lighter in weight than maple/mahagony obg. So does it sound like SG coz they are made of whole mahogony and are light weigh. I have never heard a SG sound darker than a les paul.
I doubt I will be able to describe words like "dark" or "warm" and "bright" to you. You are going to have to listen for yourself. Les Pauls and SGs sound different regardless of design materials.
bluebird007 wrote:Which one will u prefer if u have a choice to make whole mahagony OBG or a maple/mahagony OBG.
The batlord wrote:Personally, I actually prefer the sound of these original guitars to those with maple caps and I believe that is what makes them sound better.

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