1979-1980 Pickups

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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JD
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1979-1980 Pickups

Post by JD » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:40 am

What is the correct pickup for a 1979-1980 year Les Paul Reborn, Reborn Old, or Love Rock Model LS-80? I've seen chrome covered with no baseplate markings and GOTO Patent Applied For (both bobbins have adjustable polepieces, usually zebra coils). I've seen DiMarzio "double cremes" on the LS-100 and 120 which I believe is the stock pickup on these models. Which is correct for the LS-80?

hans-j?rgen
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Re: 1979-1980 Pickups

Post by hans-j?rgen » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:43 pm

JD wrote:What is the correct pickup for a 1979-1980 year Les Paul Reborn, Reborn Old, or Love Rock Model LS-80?
Did you look into the catalogs for these years? Although they are in Japanese, they have at least the pictures for each model, and sometimes you can e.g. identify "DiMarzio" in the Japanese text for the higher models. The Gotoh pickups also came in double creme, sometimes with hex polepieces, sometimes with 12 normal slot ones, so on bad photos or scans it's not easy to tell the difference.

Sorry for the vague answer, but as long as we don't have translations of these early catalogs, it will remain a guessing game most of the time. At least there is a translated spec sheet from the 1979 catalog on the main site that also lists the pickups, as far as I remember:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info ... odels.html
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

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Post by luis » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:23 pm

Tokai DiMarzios have "DiMarzio" engraved in the back.Just lift neck pickup and check for any mark.

ian
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Post by ian » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:16 am

As Hans said, we always suffered from lack of translation for the early Japanese catalogues. And enquires to Tokai seem to fall on deaf ears.

When I first came here there were several guys who?d actually bought Tokais around that date, 1978-82, & probably knew some of the info first hand, but they?ve slowly drifted away to pastures new ? I?m thinking of Loverocker & Supernout, but Peter Mac may also know first hand. I can only make a guess based on what I?ve seen over past few years.

I think early LS 80 always came with Gotoh ?PAF Vintage MK-1? pickups, & originally all with chrome covers (ie 1978-1980). LS100 & above definitely got Dimarizio or SD pickups. The Dimarizios were exposed double cr?me with hex-pole adjusters (ie from 1978) ?that?s all in the catalogues.

Believe lower models LS50 & LS60 also fitted with same Gotoh PAF-Vintage MK-1, & maybe with chrome covers at first in 78. But by circa.1979-80 LS50 always seen with exposed double cr?me pups (maybe same for LS60?). As Han?s said, those pups usually have normal slot-head adjusters, but are also quite commonly seen with Hex adjusters ie looking like the Dimarizio?s - seems like both those double-cr?me Gotoh?s are PAF Vintage MK-1 (ie supplied without covers as standard).

By 1981-82 LS60 is regularly seen with new Gotoh PAF Vintage MK-2, which is exposed zebra. Believe LS80 had same Gotoh PAF Vint. MK2 in 1981-82, but I think originally with covers. As you say, the early Gotoh's are often stamped on the base in black ink "GOTO Patent Applied For" or similar wording. :-?

Ian.

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Post by hans-j?rgen » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:07 am

ian wrote:LS100 & above definitely got Dimarizio or SD pickups. The Dimarizios were exposed double cr?me with hex-pole adjusters (ie from 1978) …that’s all in the catalogues.
I don't know for the Dimarizios ;) , but the DiMarzio PAFs have normal pole pieces, i.e. one row with slots, one without. The DiMarzio Super Distortion has 12 hexagonal pole pieces, and that look can also be found with early Gotohs. The LS100 and LS120 were equipped with two DiMarzio PAFs while the LS150 had one Super Distortion in the bridge and one PAF in the neck position.

By the way, I'm testing a Super Distortion clone and/or OEM version (no stamp on the brass back plate) in my LS120 at the bridge, and it's surprisingly usable. I adjusted it about 1mm lower than an usual PAF pickup though, so it doesn't overpower the Gibson P-94 at the neck.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

JD
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Post by JD » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:52 pm

The (stock?) pickups in the guitar (1980 LS-80) are GOTO zebra PAFs - way too hot (8.61k N & 8.64k B) IMO, and the look of the double-row of adjustable polepieces is just wrong (should be one row slotted and one row flat slugs), but I believe they might be originals after doing some research, although originally I had my doubts. From what I've seen from this 79-80 era, the lower end models either had the GOTO PAFs with or w/o covers and the LS-100 & 120 models (usually) had the double-creme DiMarzios (several variances on polepieces). I've owned several from this era and have seen some on the net to compare to, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive single pickup model for each guitar model. There is some variance from what I see.

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Post by hans-j?rgen » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:44 pm

JD wrote:The (stock?) pickups in the guitar (1980 LS-80) are GOTO zebra PAFs - way too hot (8.61k N & 8.64k B) IMO, and the look of the double-row of adjustable polepieces is just wrong (should be one row slotted and one row flat slugs), but I believe they might be originals after doing some research, although originally I had my doubts.
I also think they look original, and that double row of adjustable pole pieces might have been done to differentiate them from the DiMarzio PAFs, because I've also seen them in double creme on old Tokais.

By the way, I think these resistance values aren't that hot, because there is no exact ohm value for an original Gibson PAF from the '50s anyhow, and there were examples with even more windings back then. When estimating the pickup output it's also important to know the magnet type, and my guess is that Tokai/Gotoh might have used Alnico II for them, because at least my 1984 "'57 PAF model" both have ~8.3 kOhm and aren't that hot either compared to a DiMarzio or Shaw PAF with less windings.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

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