Expert Opinions Please

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

Moderators: ian, ned

Post Reply
J.E.M.
Guitar God
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Expert Opinions Please

Post by J.E.M. » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:03 pm

This one's been for sale on Toronto Kijiji for years and I'm not exagerating, last time I asked he wanted $1300 USD.

I've seen this one a thousand times but today I noticed a couple of things - the walnut plug on the headstock looks really stretched out, also it's a hardtail and I've never seen one of those.

I know the pics aren't great and there's little info given but any opinions on the possibility of it being a legit "1970's springy sound"

Here's the kijji advert http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z540160274


Image

Image

Image

Image

hunter
Guitar God
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:19 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Post by hunter » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:29 pm

I'm no expert but I think a 78-80 would have a round string tree, not square??

jonah65
Guitar God
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:46 pm
Location: weymouth, uk

Post by jonah65 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:46 am

pretty sure the shape of the string tree is in line with the year being copied,
as opposed to the year it was built.

Reborn Old
Guitar God
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 8:00 pm

Post by Reborn Old » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:17 am

I'm far from being an ST model expert, but would ask the seller if the bridge intonation adjusters have the Tokai name engraved on them.

It could be a special order model. Tokai engraving on the bridge would help validate the differences, even if they are removable parts.
With a white finish, there's a remote possibility the trem arm receiver was filed off, and body filled, but overall condition doesn't point to this.

The truss rod plug shape means the channel access hole was drilled at a slightly lower angle and since this was done by hand,
minor shape differences don't point to a fake.

If the neck plate has an engraved number, the 1st digit will identify the production year, except in 1982.
In 1982, the final year for Spaghetti logos, serial numbers have less than 7 digits.
If no neck plate serial number, the number should be stamped in the neck pocket, otherwise the neck plate wouldn't be original.

bluesyrat
Guitar God
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:56 pm
Location: Latina, Italy

Post by bluesyrat » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:46 am

Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?
fusion music make me puke

marcusnieman
Guitar God
Posts: 9091
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 8:48 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas

Post by marcusnieman » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:24 am

bluesyrat wrote:Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?
I've never seen a Springy with a hardtail.

marcusnieman
Guitar God
Posts: 9091
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 8:48 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas

Post by marcusnieman » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:25 am

bluesyrat wrote:Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?
I've never seen a Springy with a hardtail.

J.E.M.
Guitar God
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by J.E.M. » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:14 pm

The hardtail can't be right can it? what 50's model fender would they be copying.

I know the headstock plug can be tapered but in general when I look at a springy or goldstar I see the plug much shorter, like it's cut at an angle that results in a stubby plug.

I just get the feeling it 's a fender or allparts neck with a decal and who knows what king of body.

marcusnieman
Guitar God
Posts: 9091
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 8:48 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas

Post by marcusnieman » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:41 pm

J.E.M. wrote:The hardtail can't be right can it? what 50's model fender would they be copying.
.
59 strat came with a hardtail option in both a maple and rosewood board:

http://www.hi-guitars.com/VG1674.html

J.E.M.
Guitar God
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by J.E.M. » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:03 pm

so it's an oxymoron - a hardtail springy sound

Suki
Guitar God
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:26 am
Location: London, United Kingdom

Post by Suki » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:00 pm

I agree the headstock plug doesn't look right. It's too dark and elongated. Headstock and tuners look a little too pristine for age and apparent condition of body. I've never seen a hardtail springy.

Easy things to check would be:

1. Are the tuners stamped? Should be Tokai or Deluxe

2. Are the bridge saddles stamped? Should be Final Prospec or most likely Tokai

3. Neckplate serial number? Should be 7 digit starting 8, 9, (for "78/'79) 0 or 1 (for ''80/81) else should be L series ('82).

4. Stamp on fretboard last fret, e.g. "50"? If no stamp, it must have an L series neckplate.

More detailed check would be:

1. Body cavity stamps: "XX = XX" plus colour stamp "OW" for Olympic White.

2. Stamp on neck heel: "XX =XX" usually corresponding to body stamp.

3. Pickups should be grey bottomed U or E stamped.

4. Should have brass shielding control plate.

5. Truss rod adjuster should be allen key for 70's springy, not cross head screw like later springys.

J.E.M.
Guitar God
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by J.E.M. » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:16 am

Thanks for your help guys...
So, has anyone seen a hardtail Tokai?

Peter Mac
Guitar God
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Peter Mac » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:28 pm

Hi Guys,

To the best of my knowledge, NO Springy was made in hardtail.
- Suki, I love your work. Just a few corrections...
*Neck is maple, so no 'L' serial number for 82 (R'wood only) either 4 digit or 5 digit - string tree indicates 5 digit starting with 0, 1 or 2.
* Neck plate is after '78 build so serial # will be on neckplate.
* Colour is not OW, but SW Snow White
* String tree also indicates an ST-50 as ST-60 up were round.

As SW did not become an option until after 1984, I'd say this is a fake. . . or at the very least a Partscaster. Neck would be from an ST-50 Springy at best.
regards
Peter
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

Post Reply