another please help identify this love rock thread - sorry..

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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JJMcG
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another please help identify this love rock thread - sorry..

Post by JJMcG » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:58 am

Hey there - I've never actually had one of these threads - but I had a peek under the pickups and there are no stamps.

Set neck stops at the pickup cavety (short tennon?)
Violin Finish
Slight Flame to the 2 peice top.
Mahogany back
Tokai PAF '57 exposed zebra pups
I cant tell the head stock angle
1984 indicated by serial.
Made in Japan


The nut has been replaced, unfortunatly with a black one

sorry for the bad photo - the grain and the flames are much better in real life, as I'm sure you'll all know

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46655438@N ... 285229569/

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:30 pm

I can't see any pictures in that link but it sounds to me like a LS-80, if it is i think you will also find that it has a very thin laminate top, All Tokai models back then had the "medium" tenon, Gibsons "short" tenon doesn't make it into the pickup cavity and has a small piece of wood covering it so it can't be seen.

Mick
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JJMcG
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Post by JJMcG » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:24 pm

cheers mate - i was hoping for an ls 80 answer the Tokai 57 Paf's were my clue... - detailed pics tomorrow for sure... though that link works my end.

is a lam top visible when looking in the pickup cav's cross section of the body?

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:07 pm

You should be able to see it if you look back from the front pick up cavity although there have been a few guys on here that swore that they had a solid top only to find out later that it is in fact a laminate, which shouldn't worry you too much, one of my favourite guitars has a lam top. Tokai are masters of joining wood so the laminates can be extremely hard to see. The 57 PAF's are also used in the LS-80's. The pics worked for me this time, net was slow this morning.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:20 pm

Hi jj
The guitar would be a TLS-60CS. Chrome hardware, zebra pickups, plain top. 1984 these features only came with the TLS-60.
TLS-80 had a chevron tiger stripe veneer (totally different) nickel hardware and covered pickups.
regards
Peter Mac
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leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:44 pm

Thanks for the clarification Peter, i was wondering about the lack of flame on that one, did the 60 also have 57 paf's.?

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

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Post by JJMcG » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:30 am

there is some flame on the top...like i say better pics to follow. thanks though!

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:35 pm

Hi guys,
The shot of the guitar on the wall tells me all i need to know. If it was a TLS-80 the flame is far more pronounced and would be highly visible, even from that range.
The TLS -60 was a slightly better guitar IMHO. Solid 2 piece maple top so always some chance of getting natural ripple in it, plus no loss of tone due to multiple piece top and veneer cover. The only down side was the poly finish. It was equipped with the same p'ups as the TLS-80 - '57 PAF's
Mahogany body and neck was the same for TLS-50, 60 and 80
Keep in mind I am talking of the 1984 range ONLY.
By 1985 the TLS-60 had a veneer top also and was not as better sounding as the 1984. It may have looked nicer visually but do you play guitar for the look or the sound.
regards
Peter
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JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:15 pm

I refuse to believe that veneer top LPs have less or poor tone compared with solid tops.
This is a myth or some kind of group delusion amongst those who believe it.

There's also nothing wrong with poly finishes, as long as they are thin. It's now widely accepted that the thickness of the finish has a greater effect than what it's made of. However, nitro will age faster than poly.

It's also worth remembering that many nitro finished guitars have a poly sealer underneath or in some cases only the clear top coat is nitro, the rest is poly.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:36 pm

Hi JV,
I don't think you got the full meaning of what I wrote - i said multiple piece cap with veneer top. Most of Tokai LP's with veneer tops had 3 piece or irregular 2 piece maple caps because no-one would see them once the veneer was applied, but it still comes back to irregular densities of the tone wood.
Maple and Ash are what i would call 'Live' tone woods where Mahogany and Alder are mellow. Multiple piece Live tones are far more effected by glues and densities to their sonic qualities than Mellow woods are.
This is not a myth - it is a part of "Luthier 101" - but always open to debate.
regards
Peter mac
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JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:21 am

Peter Mac wrote:By 1985 the TLS-60 had a veneer top also and was not as better sounding as the 1984. It may have looked nicer visually but do you play guitar for the look or the sound.
It was this bit that threw me. :)

So, any guitar that has a two piece top with veneer is fine?
Eg some LS-60s, and LS-80/100/120s.

To be honest I think the overall quality of the wood will have more effect than whether the top is 2 or 3 piece or whether it has a veneer or not.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:28 am

I beg to differ with some of that Peter, i have a LP with a 3 piece top that is absolutely amazing tone wise and i think because the centre piece of wood that houses the bridge and tailpiece and including the pickups has no centre join, that the vibration transfer is actually better, i would put this guitar up against anything tone wise and it has the best vibration transfer of any of my collection. I have also played plenty of neck through guitars and they are 3 piece and work very well too.... Just my opinion.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

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