This whole old vs. new Tokai BS is so boring!

Hi,

every now and then some guys come up with that "old Tokais
are far superior to new ones" thing. Sorry guys, but what makes
you think so? Because someone who bought a few old Tokais at
eBay told you so?

I had several opportunities to compare vintage Tokais with new
models - and I prefered the new ones! I let my ears and my hands
decide, those mystified "must be better quality because it's old" arguments
are ridiculous. (And still the 70s Fender Strats raise in value, even though
Fender admits they were poor Qualitiy compared to the pre CBS ones- hey, all 50s and 60s Strats are
off the market, so let's hype the 70s! and for some young guy who's
born in the 80s a 70s Fender is a holy grail, since it's "vintage" and older than himself...)

I'm shure there are a lot of beautiful vintage Tokais out there, and for
a collector a 30 year old guitar maybe better than a new one, but I'm
a guitar player, and not a collector. My plain and simple 2006 LS 85F
puts most Gibson LP Standards I tried to shame, and for one of those
Gibbos I can buy 4 LS85...not to mention my new LS 150, who has the
same specs as a R9, except the fret edge binding!

It's just boring to hear people repeat something they heard from
self proclaimed experts, insted of judging for themselves.

No, I don't say new Tokais are better than old ones, I just say there
are good ones and mediocre ones and even bad ones out there, so grab
a good one no matter what year it was built and be happy with it.

Just my 2 cents.

Andi

Is a vingtage 65 Corvette superior to a new one? Why would one think that? Could it be because:

They weren't as mass produced.

More hands on involvement in the building of it.

Better materials (metal, chrome, etc) than today.

Much higher resale value

You can draw whatever comparison you want to the debate about guitars but it's really up to what YOU think. Turn your topic from old vs. new Tokai guitars to let's say Gibson, the answer would be painfully obvious. So it stands to reason that one could assume the same for Tokai guitars.

But it's really up to you - regardless of what anyone else says. You guys have heard me boast over my new Edwards Jimmy Page Les Paul. Is my old mint Tokai Reborn a better guitar? In a single word, no - but it stands on it's own for what it is.

I could honestly care less about this whole debate and also the whole Tokai Vs. Gibson debate. Tokai has made some beauties now and in the 80's, same goes for Gibson. BTW I would not say your LS-150 is on par with a R9. The build materials and electronics are a bit different. The LS-320/380 is really the most comparable to a R9. IMHO

buckwild said:

BTW I would not say your LS-150 is on par with a R9. The build materials and electronics are a bit different. The LS-320/380 is really the most comparable to a R9. IMHO

Click to expand...

Well, as far as I know Gibson stopped using honduras mahogany and brazilian rosewood on their reissues - so where is the difference, besides
fret edge binding - the pickups? So every Ls320/380 has "better" materials than a current R9...

And, btw., I didn't want to start a debate on new vs. old Tokais, my point was
that I can't see no reason why any old Tokai should be better than a new one...

Andi

my point was
that I can't see no reason why any old Tokai should be better than a new one...

Click to expand...

This should ring true with all guitar manufacturer's, unfortunately, there's always economics to throw various sized spanners into the machinery... (i.e. Grades of timber/availability of timber/labour market costs/etc, etc)

Well, I have a LS150 and feel very lucky to own it. I'd probably be as proud with a "vintage" LS-80 but the prices put me off a bit.

I guess it's a case of enjoying the model you own and hype it...new or old. Maybe the best person to ask is somebody who would have several of both kind...anyone?

No - just an "old" one - '85 LS150 ...

But - Andi - you know right now that it depends on your own personal gusto ... :roll:

The person who buys a new LS150 - e.g. YOU - should not claim a reputation what really just the "oldies" have ... and the person who buys an old one will never have a brand new item !!

So - it's not a discussion of 'good, better, best' - but it's the motivation for buying one, the purpose, if I want to have a good workhorse for my money with the optimum of specs and BRAND NEW , I will tend to purchase that one - or do I love the "Oldies" with their special charme in a near mint shape - that's my stimulus I must confess ... !!!!

But we cannot be devided into two classes of Tokai-lovers by such a post ... :roll: :roll:

Just over my dead body, I guess !!! :-?

Roger

tudor said:

But we cannot be devided into two classes of Tokai-lovers by such a post ... :roll: :roll:

Just over my dead body, I guess !!! :-?

Roger

Click to expand...

Hi Roger,

what's wrong?
Did you really read my first post? Maybe my English is not good enough,
but I think my point was plain and simple:

I don't think that old Tokais are superior to the new ones,
even if some guys keep trying to tell me that every day here in this forum.
And I also NEVER said that the new ones are better! I don't
try to "divide" anything!

This was never ment to be an offence to guys who love their old beautys,
as I stated above, it is, of course, MY OPINION. I'm just tired to read posts
in other forums from guys who actually never had their hands on a Tokai,
wether new or old, who tell some other guys "only to buy old Tokais, because
the new ones suck...." Of course they are refering to what they read from "experts" in the Tokai forum....

Just look in the "nitro-lacquer"-thread and you'll know what I mean.

And be happy with your 85" Lady.

Andi

Hi!
Just been reading this thread, and as this is a forum where everyone can say his own opinion, I will say mine:

Everyone who?s owning a good guitar should be happy with it! No matter wether it?s a Gibson, Tokai, Fender, or what ever!

What I do not like is that finger pointing to other guitars, that are "not as good" as the own one!

I think it is very childish saying "new Tokais suck", cause I can?t see a cause for that statemant at all! If it?s about Korean Tokai I agree 100%, cause they play in an other league. But the actual made MIJ Tokais are equal in quality, or even better than the old ones! (please accept this as MHO )

I run a music store, and there is a couple of old Tokai owners I know. I was owning a couple of old Tokais too (sold them long time ago) , so I can give a statement about old and new in terms of quality. (the charme of an old guitar is something different)

There is absolutely no reason for "hot discussions", because the only thing that counts is:

"ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR GUITAR?"

Then it does not matter what other people say about that guitar! The own opinion is the only thing that counts, and so I can not understand, why there is sometimes discussions about good, better, old or new, ..........!

Have fun with making music, and let others have fun too!

good on ya mates, "ACY"

I don't see how andi-o is causing any division here. His opinion sounds like common sense to me. Enjoy your guitar and let others enjoy theirs.

.................I don't see how andi-o is causing any division here...............


I can?t see that too!

"ACY"

P.S.: When does a guitar begins to become a "vintage guitar"? Is there any rule? How old does it have to be? - This is a serious question!

ACY said:

...............P.S.: When does a guitar begins to become a "vintage guitar"? Is there any rule? How old does it have to be? - This is a serious question!

Click to expand...

Yes, there are strongly defined rules!!
I'm really happy to enlighten the forum in this significantly question.

I passed the very important point of this debate to Tokai Japan.
Tokai Japan stated clearly and without doubts:
A Tokai guitar is old:

If it is older as 47 days and 02h:34m:19s
- This has to be proved by showing the S/N -

Hope this helps.

@andi-o
Sorry for you. In some days your baby become the status ?OLD?

I think a guitar qualifies as vintage if it was made before 'Sound' became 'Tone'. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good to know!

"ACY"

:lol:
2006 LS 85F<<<<what a joke>>>>
The only way that guitar will ever be Vintage is to drop it in a HOT Camp fire and let it sizzle for >>Oh let's say 5 Minutes>>

2006 LS 85F
:lol:

ochay said:

:lol:
2006 LS 85F

Click to expand...

Ahhhh, finally the real and only Tokai expert shows up!
Master, I'm unworthy, you see me kneeling in the dust!
Please have mercy because I only own Tokais that suck!

How about something's vintage when you've owned it before when it wasn't worth anything much, so you (I) sold it for nothing-much and now can't afford to buy another one because something weird you didn't expect thas happend to the price since then.

:-?

andi-o- Stand up my son!!!

Truthfully I have never owned a Tokai older than 1990

The craftsmanship really sucked- on the 98 and 1990 models -I mean really sucked !!

Because now adays the Tokais are generally CNC milled - I'd im guessing the quality is more uniformed???

Don't be ashamed to speak up my Andi my Son- I hear all .....
:wink:

This is a very interesting thread, folks.
But I?m now a little bit irritated.
I get aware that a forum member states, that Old Tokais are better than new ones.
Hmm, I wonder now, if even Old Tokai guitar cases are better than new ones?

Older cases sound better. At $306.50 each, they'd need to. :wink: