Drop in Tokai's standards

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pongx

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i was very keen on ordering a tokai MIJ LS85 from Ishibashi but they strongly advised me not to. this is a part from the email.

Firstly, please note our situation. We do not have any Tokai guitar in
stock. We handle it only in case a customer place an order.
Secondly, a craftsmanship of Tokai is not superb. We have often seen a
dent or a scratch or a defective finish work on their guitar although it
just comes from the manufacturer. We do not accept returning for those
reasons.

The craftsmanship of Tokai used to be good. The current products are not.
We have repeatedly advised Tokai to improve the quality but there has
been no improvement.
Tokai does not make their guitars in a large quantity. Also, we obtain
a Tokai item through a supplier. We cannot choose a good one from a few
units. To sell a Tokai item bothers us.
Those are reasons why we do not sell a Tokai item at our stores
Click to expand...


another guy from the seymour duncan forums has a friend who is also wanting to order a tokai but got a similar reply.

First of all, please understand our situation. We do not sell any Tokai
guitar at our stores. We have carried it only in case a customer wants.
We will quit to handle any Tokai guitar in the end of this month because
of chronic shortage of their products and quality problems.

Tokai does not have any LS85 in stock. An order in advance is always
required for it. Excepted arrival date is unknown. Possibly, you will
have to wait for 2-3 months after you place your order. Our best price
is 68,000 Yen. It comes with a soft case.
Shipping cost of them is 16,000 Yen.
Anyway, this month is the last chance for an order of Tokai. If you
purchase a Tokai guitar from us, please place your order soon and complete
payment by the end of June.
Also, we have often seen finish problems for current Tokai products,
including a scratch or a dent or a rough paint work. We cannot accept
returning for reason of such problems.
Click to expand...

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77376


something is seriously wrong. tokais are supposed to be of high standards. what do you guys think?
 
I have a new (2005) NALS-48 Love Rock which is Korean and I know one of the least expensive Tokai's. I'll tell ya, for the $500 I paid for it, I couldn't have done better. It's a great guitar. It's better than any epiphone and I like it better than the Gibsons I've tried at Guitar Center. I can't speak for the Japanese models. Maybe one day.
 
there has been a few complaints recently from members regarding quallity of tokais, and ishabishi was regarded as one of the best as far as i know of the japanese supliers of toks so i would not question him, as they are really sticklers for quallity, now i have had a few tok ls recently. never had any problems with them , but as i said others have
 
Could be that their supplier is sending Ishibashi the crappiest ones since they only place 1-off orders.
 
My Tokai LS70 GT was made late last year (I bought it in January of this year) - the build quality is excellent - I don't have any complaints with it whatsoever.

- Chris
 
where do you guys get your tokais from?

from the email that ishibashi sent me, it seems that it is the manufacturer's fault, not the supplier.

can you guys help me out by providing info on which other web shops i can visit, prefably those that you guys have experience with? cause i am really keen on getting a tokai
 
pongx, I got mine from a UK dealer which is supported by the UK distributor and it is a POS with many flaws.

People keep on blaming everyone except Tokai and that is just not right. Who built the guitar in the first place? And if very well known shops like Ishibashi are pulling out and giving a very harsh reason for it, it means something and needs to be looked at.

If it doesn't get addressed properly and gets swept under the rug like it is just a one off thing or not much of a big deal, then the problems will get worse.
 
Having a drop of quality because ishibashi says so is null for me.

I am not saying that there is a drop or that there isnt one. We simply dont have enough data for this.

Sure, supreme got a bad LP, and he probably got mistreated, but 1 occasion doesnt mean we should generalize nor negate that single event.

I think one must see this objectively, the 2 following ideas are wrong imho:

1. One bad tokai and bad CS = Tokai sucks (wrong)
2. One guy is saying dadada... lets just dismiss him (wrong)

Correct: 3. Supreme got a lemon and got mistreated and this doesnt mean that Tokai sucks or that CS sucks.
 
My LS85f came from Ishibashi flawless some months ago. I was happy dealing with Ishibashi and Hiroaki, my only complaint was the shipping company which is quite expensive, for me 45% the price of the guitar was shipping costs.

So, provided ishibashi is returning bad guitars to the manufacturer I think it is a right place to purchase a new Tokai. I wouldn't hesitate in dealing with them again if I had to purchase a new guitar.
 
ishibashi mention a problem with quality, just because it's not getting to the tokai owners who post on this forum, doesn't mean the problem isn't there. For all we know, ishibashi might have been sending loads back and they aren't getting to the end user anyway. I for one don't know what goes on behind the closed doors of these (japanese) dealers; though it's true to say that there are a fair few dealers on the forum, it'd be interesting to know if any of them have experienced sending Tokai guitars back to the supplier.

Quality problems happen in any industry and I think it's important to discuss them and feedback so they can improve. That's just healthy business practice.
 
Snake said:
though it's true to say that there are a fair few dealers on the forum, it'd be interesting to know if any of them have experienced sending Tokai guitars back to the supplier.

Quality problems happen in any industry and I think it's important to discuss them and feedback so they can improve. That's just healthy business practice.
Click to expand...

I agree; manufacturer->wholesaler/retailer->customer; retailer must be responsible for what he's selling to customer and manufacturer is responsible for what he's sending to his retailers.
 
I like my Tokai and have a great deal of respect for them. But recent events have changed me back to Gibson.


I will continue to enjoy, play and support Tokai, but I will never buy another one after the recent spate of poor quality ones I have seen.


The MIK ones are worse then anything I have seen come out of China and I see a lot of guitars come from China, about 5000 a month !
 
Donkey Oaty said:
I like my Tokai and have a great deal of respect for them. But recent events have changed me back to Gibson.


I will continue to enjoy, play and support Tokai, but I will never buy another one after the recent spate of poor quality ones I have seen.


The MIK ones are worse then anything I have seen come out of China and I see a lot of guitars come from China, about 5000 a month !
Click to expand...

man i feel you though the Gibsons i have played were substandard at best...
 
This event doesn't change my view on Tokai, I'll just be a little bit more careful if I happen to buy a new one.
 
Its hit or miss buying a guitar sight unseen from a photo or online catalogue....no matter what brand or model it is. I've bought new 7ender and G!bson guitars that were totally unacceptable from Musicians Friend. I have since been very careful about internet purchases by asking the right questions via an "in hand description" of the exact instrument that I will be receiving from a qualified guitar tech at the selling dealer.
 
For the people who said that they bought from Ishibashi and got a perfect one.......that is because Ishibashi sent the flawed ones back and sent you the ones that passed Ishibashis standard.

And it seems they are sending so much back that they now refuse to deal with Tokai. Ishibashi also said they have told Tokai many times to check their quality because it had dropped dramatically the last season. Tokai didn't respond adequately according to Ishibashi, so Ishibashi dumped Tokai and is actively advising customers who ask for Tokais to be very careful.....

That IS big news, no matter where you are coming from. Even if you are a Tokai fanatic who loves the brand Tokai, you must see the problem arising.

"Funnily" enough, Ishibashi is still selling all other brands.....
 
ned said:
Could be that their supplier is sending Ishibashi the crappiest ones since they only place 1-off orders.
Click to expand...
By the way, does anybody know who this supplier is, Pacifix perhaps?
 
hans-j?rgen said:
ned said:
Could be that their supplier is sending Ishibashi the crappiest ones since they only place 1-off orders.
Click to expand...
By the way, does anybody know who this supplier is, Pacifix perhaps?
Click to expand...

According to my conversations with Hiroaki I presume ishibashi deals straightforward with the manufacturer.
 
If you read a bit more carefully then you can see this:
Quote:"Also, we obtain a Tokai item through a supplier."
 
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