Worth renovating?

Tokai guitar discussion

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japscot
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Worth renovating?

Post by japscot » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:49 pm

Hi people!
When I got married last year here in Japan, I kind of inherited 2 of my wifes old guitars. One is an Orville LP copy in superb condition, and the other is a Tokai Love Rock.
The Tokai needs a little TLC. I don't know the model number, but it's wine red and the serial number begins 101xxxx.
It's not in bad condition really, just the usual belt scrapes on the back and a few little dings in other places. The hardware seems to have corroded a little bit, but I haven't tried cleaning it yet. It needs a new knob and the pickup switch surround is pretty faded.
I'm really asking your advice as to whether I should go round replacing everything with new shiny parts, or do people prefer these things to look a little bit old. We're pretty short of cash right now and may have to sell it!
Thanks in advance!
Col

japscot
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Post by japscot » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:39 pm

hmmm.... then again maybe its candy apple red. Kinda speckly pearlescent reddy orange colour.......ah i dunno

ian
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Post by ian » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:05 pm

Hi Japscot ? serial number suggests 1981 (but currently some debate about early numbers). Early Tokais becoming quite collectible, but not yet truly valuable. Don?t change anything, unless the parts don?t actually work. Keep any old non-working parts. Never enlarge any holes or make any permanent changes. Be wary of selling a high end model like LS200 at low end price (tricky to identify different models, but see Johan?s thread ?85 LS80 on eBay? (under ?Sightings & eBay Alerts?). Can tell you more if you can post a pic :-? .

Ian.

japscot
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Post by japscot » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:29 pm

ok, i put 3 webcam pics up.

http://uk.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coj ... m=a887.jpg

any help in identifying?

Cybercat
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Post by Cybercat » Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi japscot,

Congrats on your "inheritance"!

Your webcam pics are, erm, a litle 'hazy' (!) but your guitar looks rather similar to mine ( - maybe they're twins?)...

Image

More pics on my homepage ("new pics") here: -
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

Mine also has a S/N begining 101... & is a 1981 LS60 Love Rock "Cherry Top" (...or, in Japanese, 'Sakura', as luthier Simon Pinder's Japanese wife named her).

I was lucky & paid only $535 (plus $50 shipping) for her on eBay last September from a very good dealer. Really great guitar! I've been a Strat player for over 30 years but I've been using this Love Rock at every gig I can in the last 9 months, nice contrast to the Strat sound for 8-10 numbers each night - & a real "Gibson Killer" (tried several Gisons before this, including "historics' - not even close!)

She now has Lindy Fralin p'ups (originals safely stored) but will eventually be upgrading the Fralins to some "Darkbursts" or "Goodwoods" from Jim Wagner. http://www.crcoils.com./

(Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I recently put some if his SR p'ups in one of my Strats, & it kills all the others I have, inc. Duncan, Fralin & original 1964 Fenders. See reviews here: -
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/D ... m_Rewinds/
- for once, all the 'hype' turns out to be true). 8)

As for your guitar, very good advice from Ian - I'd change as little as possible, & if you do change anything, keep the old parts safely too.

However, I play out several nights each week in 3 or 4 different bands, plus jams etc., so with mine I decided that as it's going to be heavily gigged, I'd swap out the original p'ups, wiring, printed circuit board & controls (even the knobs as I prefer to use the "hatbox" type - easier for swells, 'violining' etc.), "put 'em in mothballs" safely and install better pup's, "50's wiring", high quality audio caps (Hovland/Vitamin Q) etc. I also flipped the magnet in the neck p'up for the "Peter Green mod" as we do "Need Your Love So Bad" & a few of his other numbers in one band I'm in.

Has made it a really top notch guitar to play now, oozes tone & harmonics, & all those great 60's & 70's rock & blues sounds.

Anyway, hope some of the above has been useful (?), good luck, and please keep us up to date on whatever you decide to do.
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

My current Skype status is : -
Image

japscot
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Post by japscot » Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:53 pm

Yup, looks like the same guitar to me!!!
Are those the new pickups? I only ask cos mine have hex polepieces.
Thanks for the help, maybe I should just clean it up and PLAY the damn thing. Didn't realise these were so highly regarded.
Joe Walsh? Cool

Paladin2019
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Post by Paladin2019 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:41 am

Leave it as it is. People pay hundreds to get the old look on new guitars!

Skybone
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Post by Skybone » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:42 am

Personally, I'd leave it as it is if it's playable. If it was unplayable because of missing bits then fine, upgrade away, but if it's all there and plays well, then play it and enjoy it.

HOWEVER, if you do upgrade the hardware, I'd suggest direct replacement parts, don't do any alterations to the guitar if you can get away with it, and most importantly, keep the old parts. This will mean that if you do flog it later on, you can put it back to original spec with the original equipment, and it'll be worth that little bit extra.

ian
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Post by ian » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:20 pm

Hi Japscot ? if your guitar is a 1981 LS60 like Cybercat?s, then you have a very nice early collectible Love Rock. It might be worth hanging on to it for a year or two, just to see how the market works out. I?d try to keep if it you can :-? .

Hey Cybercat ? great photos! Loved those 8) . But while we?re on about highjacking the thread, and at risk of showing my pathetic ignorance.....?violining? is a term I came across way back in the 70?s, but I never really understood what it was, so two questions if I may ? (i) any suggestion for a record with a classic/clear example of violining (Jeff Beck or Alan Holdsworth maybe?), and (ii) briefly, how do you do it (sounds like it?s done via the tone control?) :o ?

Ian.

Joe
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Post by Joe » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:23 pm

Hi Ian,

may I?

My use of the term "violining" is that you first turn the volume down, than hit the string and after this blend in the volume. So you don't have a concrete stroke (the part of hitting that note). Know what I mean?

One of the basic parts in guitar playing, which is essential for the identifying of the used instrument is missing. Best played with a strat because of the position of the volumeknob. Pat Travers is a master in violining, but I have to check if he did this on record, on gigs he often does it.

Have mercy

Joe

ian
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Post by ian » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:10 pm

Hi Joe ? thanks for the explanation, very clear. Well, I tried it a few times, but I don?t get any violin sounds, just a change in volume lol :oops: . I think I need to hear it on a few records, so I have a better idea what I?m aiming for :-? .

Ian.

Cybercat
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Post by Cybercat » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:55 am

ian wrote: I think I need to hear it on a few records, so I have a better idea what I?m aiming for :-? . Ian.
Hi Ian,

I''ve stuck a couple of tracks with violining in on my homepage you can lsiten to/download.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/FileSharing9.html
The one with Rory Gallagher (from his "Irish Tour '74" album) is a classic, one of the first times I heard on record too (though it was about 30 years ago, ...Oops, showing my age!)

While I'm writing anyway, japscot asked earlier "Are those the new pickups? I only ask cos mine have hex polepieces. "

No, those were pics the seller took for eBay, before I got it - 'normal' round polepieces. Here's the only erm, (1/2-way) "decent" recent pics I've got, of it in any way close up, dunno if you can make them out (my camera died on me a while back, took thesse from a video of a gig a few qweeks ago with a 7-piece band I'm in)...

Image

Image
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

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lasher
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Post by lasher » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:29 am

hmmm, i know a chick that gigs in hong kong, chris from sisters of sharon, and i don't recall what her new band is called. haven't heard from her in a long time.

Cybercat
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Post by Cybercat » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:20 am

H iLasher,

I seem to remember 'Sisters Of Sharon' finally threw the towel in quite a while back.

I'm pretty sure that it's the same Chris who runs "Shazza Music" (shazza@hkstar.com) & is singer in a band called "Thinking Out Loud" now, her website is here: -

http://www.thinkingoutloud.com.hk
Bill - Hong Kong.
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

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ian
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Post by ian » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:04 pm

Hi Bill ? thanks for taking the time & trouble to upload the sound clips, I really do appreciate that :-? . Hey, nice playing?. I prefer yours to Mr Gallagher?s 8) ! OK, great example, I get it now....tried it....works fine. I?m sure I?ve heard it in loads of solos, I?ll try sorting through some old records for more examples (don?t have any Rory, but I?ll try early P.Green, .... Beck must have it on record too, he seems to have tried everything.). Thanks again (& to Joe for the explanation) :-? .

Ian.

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