New user, new guitar! Tokai Love Rock LS-70, 2001. Is it MIJ?

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Jimmy2x2x

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UK here!

Hey guys, I have been longing after a Tokai for a while and pulled the trigger earlier today
and I am now asking questions after buying (I know, I know!)...

It has a couple of very small blemishes but plays beautifully, the sustain might be the best I have ever heard on an electric

Unfortunately I have not been able to locate a 2001 catalogue and would like to know as much
about this model as possible. I know the pups, pots and switch have been changed.

The main thing I want to confirm is that is actually a MIJ.
I think the serial dates is to 2001
and I think the headstock is lacking the dimple - meaning it was sold in the Japanese domestic market?

Serial: 0104586

I paid £700 (and a 4 hour round trip to collect) which, with the pickups, I thought was reasonable

Purchase link:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144210525207

Happy to take more photos if required
 
My guess is that it’s a 2001 MIJ LS70F.

Two piece back. Veneer top I would guess.

Check the cavity for the neck pickup and see if it has the model number stamped in there.

Hopefully another member will comment. I could be wrong. :roll:
 
I'm never convinced the original pickups are a weak spot but people always want to change them no matter what guitar it is!
Nearest cat and lots of other good stuff here
https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/tokai-2000-catalogue/
 
“ LS70F Body : Flamed sycamore laminated rock maple top/Mahogany 2pc back.
Neck : Mahogany set neck.
Fingerboard : Rosewood.
Pickups/PAF-Vintage MK2
Finish/Polyurethane
Color/Cherry_sunburst/Violin_finish/Indigo_blue/See_through_red
Other/Pick-guard
A case is not included.
Made in Japan.
Price/List price 70,000yen >>> your price call This list price is about $560 US Dollars.”

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1466
 
Looks like a MIJ LS70F to me too. The truss rod cover has been changed for a Gibson one which is not uncommon.

They were usually pretty good about putting markings in the pickup cavity during this time period. Take the pickups out and have a look.

The top is maple but the flame is laminate. The headstock shape is the Gibson open book style but this was normal in European markets at the time, they only added the dimple to MIJ export models a few years later. At that time only MIK models had the dimple.

You paid a fair price. Pickups and upgrades don't actually add monetary value even if they're good, but the price was still fair and if you're happy with everything then that's a bonus!
 
Amazing responses, thanks so much guys!

I will check the pickup cavity when I change the strings, they had just been changed by previous owner to blues-sliders 10-48, they are new to me and I think I will be sticking with ;)

I realise the upgrades are not always desirable, but they are good for me, this guitar is a player.

I will update with cavity pics when I get there.

Cheers
 
Thanks for the link, that is a beautiful top!

I do like the original TRC, will try to find one at some point
Also, mine doesn't have the metal markers under the control dials (not sure of name)

For me personally, at the same price I would have still chosen the one I have as I wanted to check out the Slash pickups ;)

***************************************************

Curiosity got the better of me and I loosened up my strings, popped off the tailpiece and took some photos of the pickup cavities

The hand writing in the neck cavity seems to say "... something??" on the top line then "LS70F" on the bottom line of text
Gold stars for everyone for identifying it correctly (I had no doubts whatsoever!)

I tried to take decent pics of everything in there:

can anyone tell me what you would call this tenon?

and, is this defo a veneer? I really have no experience in identifying either ;)

Any other info greatly appreciated

https://imgur.com/a/k51ged8

***************************************************
Unrelated question, I noticed that on a lot of the Love Rocks I have seen, the break angle of the strings from the bridge to the tailpiece seems very steep, I thought it was better to have a very shallow angle to make string bending easier, just something I have read a few times, any input on this?
 
Thanks for the link, seems a little pricey for a repro!

£30 / $40 us

I will hold off for now and have a look around ;)
 
Yep. Basically the only game in town. I don’t know of anyone else who has them. The main thing is that you have a guitar you are enjoying playing. Congratulations.
 
Jimmy2x2x said:
Thanks for the link, that is a beautiful top!

I do like the original TRC, will try to find one at some point

Having a Gibson one on there won't do any harm, and a lot of people swap them like that. Mine has a Historic TRC with the wider white outline for that vintage vibe.

Jimmy2x2x said:
Also, mine doesn't have the metal markers under the control dials (not sure of name)

Knob pointers. They will have been on there from the factory but again removing them is a popular, simple and reversible mod. you can get a set on ebay for cheap.

Jimmy2x2x said:
can anyone tell me what you would call this tenon?

Medium. It extends to the end of the fretboard but no 'lip' under the pickup. It has all the structural and tonal benefits of a true 'long' tenon but is easier to build and technically not "hitorically accurate". It is, however, a lot better than the neck joint you get on modern Gibsons.

Jimmy2x2x said:
and, is this defo a veneer? I really have no experience in identifying either ;)

Yes, a true solid top would only have come on an LS200 or LS320 from this era. You can't see it from your photos but you would identify it by comparing the wood on the top to the wood on the walls of the pickup cavities. On a solid top the central wood joint and the grain lines would line up perfectly. On a laminate they don't. The laminate itself can't be seen by eye because it's thinner than paper.

Jimmy2x2x said:
Unrelated question, I noticed that on a lot of the Love Rocks I have seen, the break angle of the strings from the bridge to the tailpiece seems very steep, I thought it was better to have a very shallow angle to make string bending easier, just something I have read a few times, any input on this?

This is a bit of a can of worms. Tokai do set the break angle very harsh from the factory. Some believe a strong break angle gives better tone through better vibration transfer. But the problem is that the pressure on the bridge is so high that the bridge itself can sag in the middle and make the D & G strings too low in relation to the others. It can be bent back into shape but metal fatigue means that it will happen again. I went through three bridges before I invested in a stainless steel bridge. It's a different sound but I like it and it'll never sag in a million years.

Setting it too shallow can make the strings easier to bend but they can become loose and rattly. You have to find a happy medium.
 
The tenon thing is interesting. The joints on the neck tenons on Tokais are unbelievably precise because of the CNC machines. So no gaps which vintage long tenon Gibsons had.

And Faber sells tail pieces too. I think they sent me one for free when I got a TRC from them. Haven't tried it. 8)

https://www.faberguitar.com/navi.php?qs=tailpiece&search=
 
Sigmania said:
And Faber sells tail pieces too. I think they sent me one for free when I got a TRC from them. Haven't tried it. 8)
I have a set of their prototype locking studs, and I did the original English translation to advertise them 8)

All of their original designs are very clever and worth a look. I still use those locking studs and I have a set of their pickup rings too.
 
I haven't replaced a bridge in any of my Love Rocks yet, but I have one that a previous owner put a Gretsch TABR1 in. I assume there was the sagging issue? Seems to work fine to me.

OmRIQMh.jpg


I need to pay attention to my bridges as I have heard about this before, but haven't noticed buzzing so I haven't looked.

Thanks for the heads up!
 
Thanks for all that info guys, very informative and it is great to learn so much about my instrument.

Two more small questions, if you don't mind ;)

Anyone know what the fretwire is made from?
Are the neck inlays MOP or Mother of toilet seat?
 
As far as I know all Japanese Love Rocks use Sanko #213 medium jumbo fret wire which is standard nickel silver composition.
 
TY, the fretboard inlays do have quite a nice shimmer to them, but they might be plastic, hard for me to tell.

The tuners look like they could be vintage gotoh, which would fall in with country of manufacture, but again I am unsure, they may be unbranded generics.
 
Great news, I had no idea! Checked the bottom of the bridge and tailpiece, both clearly stamped.

The more I discover, the more I love it ;)
 

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