TOKAI ALS 48

Tokai guitar discussion

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shawn0072
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TOKAI ALS 48

Post by shawn0072 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:09 am

bought my tokai als 48 love rock model last week.
I think its made on the year of 2008.
Can anyone tell me this is a real or a fake copy?everything seems fine except there is quite a lot of buzz sound when playing tru flat and the NUT seems weird as it look too deep (cutting)

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messer
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Post by messer » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:28 pm

Chinese Tokais are fairly new on the market, I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to judge if chinese Tokai is fake or not...
(I'm not even sure if there exist anything like fake chinese Tokai ; )
So don't you worry about that aspect of the deal.

If it's on warranty then ask a seller for a change.

If not, then go with it to the luthier, and pay for changing a nut to the bone one and a proper set-up.

I would go to a luthier either way. Both ways you are going to pay (by time and money), and choosing the second option will get you a better guitar, posts cut by a proffesional in a bone nut really make a big difference in such guitar. Add to that a full set-up and you might be amazed.

Enjoy playing this baby!

Your fretboard wood looks better than in mine MIJ Tokai BTW : )

stratmoto
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Post by stratmoto » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:33 am

Yes, it is a real Tokai ALS48. Chinese ALS48's have been around since 2006.

There are fake Chinese Tokais around, here is one that was.. ahem... "parallel imported" by some people in New Zealand. Oddly they are now the official Tokai importer for NZ. I wonder if Mr Adachi knows about their activities? They have had half a dozen or so on eBay over the last 6 months.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOKAI-LES-PA ... 4159404a9b

Anyway, the nut slot depths do vary on the Chinese models. The important thing is the string action at the first fret, while holding the string down at the 2nd or3rd fret. There should be around 0.020" on the low E string. This will become smaller as you check across the other 5 strings, and end up with around 0.010" action on the high E string. The depth of the slots is not ideal, but the plastic nuts do not respond well to being filed down. It is almost impossible to achieve a smooth, polished finish. A bone nut is a nice upgrade.

If you mean by "tru flat" that when you strum the guitar with the strings open, there is buzzing? This usually means that the truss rod is adjusted for a straight neck and that the climate where you are may be more humid than where and when the guitar was setup. This is a normal situation, as the wood absorbs moisture and grows slightly. The steel truss rod, which adjusts the neck does not change anywhere as much, even with extreme temperature changes.

Once you have the truss rod adjusted for your environment, these guitars are very stable and will maybe only require a summer and winter, seasonal tweak to bring things back to where they should be for buzz free playing.

A small tweak, to back off or loosen the truss rod, by using the supplied Allen Key should have things back in order and playing fine.
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shawn0072
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Post by shawn0072 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:39 am

hi i dont really know how to explain this in using the ''guitar video'' so i made a video and ill be uploading it shortly ...will let you know what my problem is.

THX

shawn0072
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Post by shawn0072 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:50 am

here it is...u might need to lounder the speaker ...or play it with 480p mode if its unclear..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUhu8-3H7MI

hope this helps!

messer
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Post by messer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:17 pm

Have you played classical or acoustic guitar before?

You are striking the strings to hard. Guitar is about finesse above all, remember that ; )
While playing classical you need to play forcefully, because it's an acoustic instrument. All top notch classical guitar players strike the strings really hard but they don't abandon finesse.

Nearly all Billy Gibbons (from ZZ Top) guitars have 7-38 strings on them! (His guitars are chambered also.)
This guy has a really light and silky touch!

There's a question under you video:
"how to fix the buzz sound?truss road adjustment?"

It doesn't work like that dude. Don't touch the truss rod by yourself!

I really advice you to go to a professional luthier to perform full set-up.

It will take all concerns out of your head.

According to many professionals (Dan Erlewine and Eric Koch come to mind), truss rod shouldn't be adjusted to compensate string action set up.

Truss rod adjustment should be only used to set proper neck relief. Every guitar has its "sweet spot" where it will play best.

Proper string action set-up:
1) String posts in the nut must be properly cut.
2) String posts in bridge saddles must be properly cut.
In both cases you must achieve identical string radius to the radius of your fretboard.
3) Setting proper bridge height.

Judging form your previous posts, you are not able to done all of this setup by yourself.

Go to a luthier! It's a must for every new guitar if you are a beginner player.

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Post by jacco » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:20 pm

After watching the video I think you should start by raising the bridge a little bit, the strings are too close to the fretboard for you. No need to go to a luthier to do that.

shawn0072
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Post by shawn0072 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:52 am

guys!thx for the comment!
As i dont have any knowledge how to fix it ,and i was kinda afraid i might stuff it up so i will bring it to a luthier ..and see what they can do...

shawn0072
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Post by shawn0072 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:54 am

and personally i think its the bridge problem not the truss rod.

stratmoto
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Post by stratmoto » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:51 pm

Perhaps it would help the luthier that you take it to if he has some setup specifications to compare where the guitar is now.

When I set the guitar up, for "lead playing", prior to shipping to WA the basic specs are as follows:-

Action at nut: 0.020" ~ 0.010"
Action at 12th fret: 4/64" low E, 3/64" high E
Neck relief (capo at 1st fret, depressed string at last fret): 0.00"
Pickup heght: Treble 4/64", Rhythm 5/64 (High & low polepiece to string on low and high E)

Additional information. Neck was adjusted dead straight with no tension and the frets were levelled and recrowned. Fretboard was given 2 x Lemonoil treatments and the frets were polished. Guitar was test played on all frets for every string for clean, buzz free playing. Notes in the upper register were bent up to check if there was any "choking". Open chords, ie. the G, C and D chords like in the video were played quite firmly to check for full resonance.

Specific information about the setup. Given that the request for a guitar for "lead playing" was asked for, the action at the 12th fret is 1/128" lower than the normal specification. The truss rod was adjusted so that there was absolutely zero neck relief. After ther fret level. recrown and polish, the guitar played cleanly and was ready to pass to any lead guitarist to plug in and play. On stage.

It is not common and virtually impossible for the Tune-O-matic studs to adjust themselves higher or lower while the string tension holds it down. What will become a factor is the climate in Sydney (where the guitar was setup) was much drier than the wet conditions in Perth (4,500km away) when the guitar was recieved. The wood absorbs the moisture and will become backbowed, fact. If the guitar was set for a more general setup, with a very small amount of neck relief and a very slightly higher string action, there would be more margin for error and there would be far less chance of the guitar having a problem with buzzing.

The simple lesson that I have learned here is that, in the future, all guitars that I sell will have the same, safe standard setup that has worked perfectly for hundreds of players. If there are any "special requests" for specific setups, then I would suggest that a guitar tech or luthier is paid to set the guitar for the players individual needs.
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messer
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Post by messer » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:25 pm

It's a very low setup stratmoto, what string gauge do you use?

stratmoto
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Post by stratmoto » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:54 pm

messer wrote:It's a very low setup stratmoto, what string gauge do you use?
Hi messer,

10~46. It is the gauge that comes on the guitars from the factory.

To be clear, we are talking about the actual ALS48BB that shawn0072 has the buzzing problems with. I set it up.
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Post by Diamond » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:13 pm

stratmoto wrote:Perhaps it would help the luthier that you take it to if he has some setup specifications to compare where the guitar is now.

When I set the guitar up, for "lead playing", prior to shipping to WA the basic specs are as follows:-

Action at nut: 0.020" ~ 0.010"
Action at 12th fret: 4/64" low E, 3/64" high E
Neck relief (capo at 1st fret, depressed string at last fret): 0.00"
Pickup heght: Treble 4/64", Rhythm 5/64 (High & low polepiece to string on low and high E)

Additional information. Neck was adjusted dead straight with no tension and the frets were levelled and recrowned. Fretboard was given 2 x Lemonoil treatments and the frets were polished. Guitar was test played on all frets for every string for clean, buzz free playing. Notes in the upper register were bent up to check if there was any "choking". Open chords, ie. the G, C and D chords like in the video were played quite firmly to check for full resonance.

Specific information about the setup. Given that the request for a guitar for "lead playing" was asked for, the action at the 12th fret is 1/128" lower than the normal specification. The truss rod was adjusted so that there was absolutely zero neck relief. After ther fret level. recrown and polish, the guitar played cleanly and was ready to pass to any lead guitarist to plug in and play. On stage.

It is not common and virtually impossible for the Tune-O-matic studs to adjust themselves higher or lower while the string tension holds it down. What will become a factor is the climate in Sydney (where the guitar was setup) was much drier than the wet conditions in Perth (4,500km away) when the guitar was recieved. The wood absorbs the moisture and will become backbowed, fact. If the guitar was set for a more general setup, with a very small amount of neck relief and a very slightly higher string action, there would be more margin for error and there would be far less chance of the guitar having a problem with buzzing.

The simple lesson that I have learned here is that, in the future, all guitars that I sell will have the same, safe standard setup that has worked perfectly for hundreds of players. If there are any "special requests" for specific setups, then I would suggest that a guitar tech or luthier is paid to set the guitar for the players individual needs.
Excellent information right here...and I agree with everything said.

All this guitar needed on arrival was a slight tweak on the trussrod to add some relief, 20 seconds work, that's it, and the rest of the setup would have remained perfectly in tact.

Wood WILL move when humidity levels change, end of story, and as you correctly point out the neck will show the affects of the movement.

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Post by jacco » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:04 am

I wonder why the OP didn't contact the seller about this, that was the easiest way to get info on the guitar. Still think this low action doesn't suit his type of playing. Apart from possible TR adjustment, he needs to raise the bridge a bit. Is it normal to adjust the neck to zero relief down under?

shawn0072
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Post by shawn0072 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:05 pm

thx stratmoto for the useful info.
I will take the note to the luthier and see what they can do.

Besides the buzz sound,everything works fine,and to be honest i love my als48! fretboard was absolutely smooth and shine ,it just looks so cool!

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