Tokai es-120 finish - poly or nitro?

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Windfeld

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Hi guys

I am buying a Tokai Es-120 sunburst from 2006, but I would love to know finish those are. Nitro or poly? I hope nitro, but I would love to be sure:d

Quick help would be great, as I have the deal pending:d

Andreas
 
Others will know better than I do, but if that is the same model as my 2007 ES130 (and I think it is), it will have a nitro top coat over a poly base coat. But don't take my word for it, many others know more about these than I do.

AlanN will know, I think.

Mike
 
Windfeld said:
Hi guys

I am buying a Tokai Es-120 sunburst from 2006, but I would love to know finish those are. Nitro or poly? I hope nitro, but I would love to be sure:d

Quick help would be great, as I have the deal pending:d

Andreas


8) in my 2006 tokai japa catalog. they are ........

@ es110......poly.
@ es120L (lefty).......poly.

@es130............lacquer.
@es135............lacquer.

@ 110&120 are the dot inlay model w/o flame maple and in poly.
@ 130&135 are in lacquer. 130 is the dot inlay and 135 is the block inlay.

tokai changed the model names after 2008 slightely to higher #s.


8)
 
Yup, Mike and Joe are spot on. My 2005 120 is a nitro topcoat with flamed maple (it's a 2006 ES130 equivalent) but anything newer is the next model down.
 
Thats why I allways recommend:
If you have doubts - Go only for the specs.
If you have a flamed ES Tokai - don't care about if it could be a ES120,130,145,or ESxx.
Thats also valid for LS models.
Check for one/two or three pcs. body.
 
stratman323 said:
Others will know better than I do, but if that is the same model as my 2007 ES130 (and I think it is), it will have a nitro top coat over a poly base coat. But don't take my word for it, many others know more about these than I do.

AlanN will know, I think.

Mike

Nitro top coat over a poly base coat. I think so too.. there must be a reason why only the highest-end Tokais (LS470 and LS370) have "all lacquer" specified compared with the usual "lacquer finish" on the rest of the premium series. I have the feeling that any nitro-finished tokai except those 2 models have a poly base coat.. Can?t be sure, but I do think so.
 
Alpedra said:
I have the feeling that any nitro-finished tokai except those 2 models have a poly base coat.. Can?t be sure, but I do think so.

I have an LS160S which is considered a Premium model as well and I'm pretty sure that there is poly underneath. The finish is nowhere near as thin as that on my '58 Gibson Les Paul RI. Yes, I think that they saved the all nitro finishes for the very top end.
 
Two of my LS150's were Nitro only, no poly sealer.

In other words, Nitro grain sealer and top coat. My wife dropped nail polish remover on one and it went through to bare wood ( try that with Poly and it will laugh at you ).

The second was battle worn through gigging and went through to bare wood the same as my early Gibsons.

My ES130 was Nitro over Poly.
 
Donkey Oaty said:
My wife dropped nail polish remover on one and it went through to bare wood ( try that with Poly and it will laugh at you ).

Was she using it as a table while she was doing her nails? :eek:
 
marcusnieman said:
Donkey Oaty said:
My wife dropped nail polish remover on one and it went through to bare wood ( try that with Poly and it will laugh at you ).

Was she using it as a table while she was doing her nails? :eek:

Noooo

I was working on the guitar at the time and moved it too close to where she doing her nails, so its my fault :(
 
I have a new LS160S and I am certain it has a poly main finish. Whatever nitro is applied over the poly is minimal at best.

I changed out the nut this weekend on this guitar as the string spacing wasn't to my liking. In scribing the finish at the nut to prevent chipping when removing the factory nut, the finish is poly plastic-like when cut into.
 
It is a bit of a con to refer to nitro when it's only a thin top coat. Fender tend to do much the same, on all but their Custom Shop stuff, and even then I'm not 100% sure about all their guitars. The trouble is that the magic word "nitro" allows manufactureres to charge at least 50% more, maybe even twice as much.

:evil:
 
I do understand what you?re saying. And Nitro is not necessarily better than poly tonally, if a guitar builder knows what he?s doing. MIJ Tokais, for example, don?t feel plasticy as Epis, for example. Nitro is just a more "traditional" finish and more expensive and difficult to apply. I still don?t understand the "thing" about nitro. I like my guitars looking new and I hate that sticky feeling that nitro sometimes has (especially when it?s hot and/or humid). I do think that the love for nitro has more to do with visuals and feelling than tone. And there are some top guitar builders that also think that way (e.g. John Suhr or Tom Anderson).
 
I agree that nitro is about feel, not tone, but I don't understand this "sticky nitro" thing that you mentioned. You're not alone, other people have commented on this too, but I've never experienced it, & I do have a few genuinely nitro finished guitars.

If I play a poly guitar for long (say over 30 minutes), I find that my left hand sweats to an annoying degree. This doesn't happen with nitro - perhaps the nitro absorbs the sweat? Or maybe it's the poly finish that makes my hand sweat? Whatever it is, it's not nearly as comfortable. And nitro over poly is only marginally better than poly on it's own. Maybe it's not any better at all, & it's all psychological?
 
I've always been in agreement with Mike on this - all the talk of "sticky" nitro is baffling to me. Polyester is awful - this is what Epiphones are covered in, and I find it thick and sticky and it soon gums up with sweaty gunk. Polyurethane is much better, but I still prefer nitro.
 
Well.. I do feel it. That feeling does, eventually, goes away, with time, as the guitar gets older. But it takes long.. sometimes it takes several years depending on the guitar and quality of the Nitro used (yes, there?s Nitro and then there?s Nitro)..

I had a Nitro finished Tokai which I sold around 2 years ago. The gummy and sticky feeling on that one was quite bad. The guitar sounded good and had a beautiful top. :cry: On other Tokais and Gibsons I?ve played, that feeling was there, but it was not as bad as on that one.

Of course, I?m talking from my experience. YMMV.

Edit: And of course, you?re right. There is Polyester and then there?s Poliurethane. The latter is much better. It usually feels much less plasticy.

BTW, does anyone know if the lower end MIJ Tokais are "ester" or "urethane"?
 
Hmm, I can see where you're coming from; I think every nitro guitar I've owned has been pretty old bar the ES120, and that had been well played in before it came to me. And yep, no need to explain variation in the properties of nitro to me... it's about the only use I've found for my chemistry degree ;)
 
Alpedra said:
BTW, does anyone know if the lower end MIJ Tokais are "ester" or "urethane"?

That should be a subject by itself. Does anyone know? If not, I might just start a thread on this.

I do have a couple of newish nitro finished guitars, & I suppose I do see what you mean about them being a touch "sticky" at first. But to me the word I would use is "soft", just as poly feels "hard". I just like that soft feeling, maybe it's just because I've come to associate that feeling with quality?

I am beginning to wonder whether nitro over poly is worth all the extra expense - if it's never going to feel like proper nitro, maybe it's not worth the bother?
 

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