Tokai or Fakai ?

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MIJvintage

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has anyone here ever seen a Tokai example like this?

The a is dotted :eek: instead of the i being dotted :-?

Is this a real Tokai, or is it a Fakai?

Is this like one of those extremely rare double struck coins, or one of those very rare postage stamps with the upside down airplane?

So, if this is a real Tokai, is it worth more? :lol:

TOKAI.jpg
 
OK, I did some diggin' around & I came up with this; one of Rup's LS320s with the same 'dotted a' ........... LOL.........

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8179&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


now I feel a little better, because mine is on my LS320 too :lol: .................
 
Tokais are finely crafted guitars... but to me it's a bit too much to talk about Tokai fakes - as every inch of Love Rocks and whatever their guitars are called to match the original logo types are STOLEN designs.

Tokais are fakes themselves alltogether - so maybe it would be a bit more recpectfull to those who really made these designs to fade down the talk about Tokais as if they were of original design. There is no such thing as a faked Tokai.

Japan is very much about oldfasnioned respect - strange that they live so well with all those stolen designs. You allmost can't get lower.
 
Sounds like Troels wants a fight! You're entitled to your opinion, but this isn't the place to find many who will agree with you! A faked Tokai is a guitar with Tokai on the headstock that wasn't made by Tokai. Tokai may have been a bit blatant with the names they "borrowed" (Les Paul Reborn, Springy Sound, Rockinbetter), but they never produced guitars that tried to defraud by putting "Fender" or "Gibson" on the headstock - if they had done, they would have been fakes.

In fact, Fender at least have every reason to be grateful to Tokai. In the late 70s Fender were making the worst guitars in their history - bad design changes, badly engineered neck joints, thick shiny poly finishes etc. etc. Tokai showed them how to get their company back on course - produce well made re-issues/replicas of their classic models. Fender started their excellent US re-issue in 1982, and starting licensing Japanese companies to make their budget range. The company turned itself around by getting back in tune with it's own heritage, thanks to Tokai showing the way.

If I was in charge of Fender, I would be very grateful to Tokai.

Mike
 
Troels said:
Tokais are finely crafted guitars... but to me it's a bit too much to talk about Tokai fakes - as every inch of Love Rocks and whatever their guitars are called to match the original logo types are STOLEN designs.

Tokais are fakes themselves alltogether - so maybe it would be a bit more recpectfull to those who really made these designs to fade down the talk about Tokais as if they were of original design. There is no such thing as a faked Tokai.

Japan is very much about oldfasnioned respect - strange that they live so well with all those stolen designs. You allmost can't get lower.
Click to expand...

everything after 1959/60 for a les paul is a copy....
 
And the funny thing is that some of the worst copies were made by Gibson... :p And as for Troels, its great you have an opinion but tell someone who cares or go somewhere where they'll listen to that rubbish :eek: As Mike said anything made outside the Tokai factories or that wasn't commissioned by Tokai that says Tokai is a FAKE.....Now would you like me to say it slowly for you..!!!!!!!

Mick
 
I think the difference in the words 'copy' and 'fake' are pretty clear, I don't think anyone will argue the fact that Tokai make copies.

Mick, don't be so hard on Troels, everyone should be allowed to have an opinion. This is a discussion forum, if we all agreed all the time it would be pretty dull :wink:
 
:p :p :p :p Looks like someone is bored and wants to rant on and get others going,does that mean my car is a fake because it has a different name on it as my brohers or is it a fake because its got an engine and 4 wheels and looks like another model,or because my TV is like a TV shape but it says Samsung 50 lcd HD on it,is that a fake or should it say Baird on it. :wink:
 
I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on anything, but I do distingish between copy/ replica etc. and fake. I live in Canada and there is a lot of what I would call fake's out there, (other factory made-non endorsed guitars in which they put Tokai's name on or claim that they are sub contactors for Tokai etc.) If I bought A $3000 Guitar only too find out later that it wasn't what it said it was I'd be pissed. People have the right to be warned about conterfeit guitars, not everyone is an expert and these forums provide people with needed information so they don't get screwed by con artists or just people who also didn't know any better themselves. And I thank the people who take the time to put out warnings about the fakes. Nobody has to heed their warnings if thy don't want too.
 
Troels, I can understand your comment concerning the Tokai logos, as some do look nearly identical to some originals from other makers.
I appreciate your opinions, which you are surely entitled to; I may not agree with all of them but at least you didn't refer to another TF member by some dumb nick name that they don't go by :wink:


stratman, I agree with your slant on the Tokai/Fender issue, and how Tokai was making guitars better than Fender was then, and how this all eventually had a hand in Fender realizing they were screwing up, big time.
I also believe that Fender owes some small amount of thanks to Tokai.


Villager, considering your replies, I take it you have never seen a Tokai LS logo with the A dotted?

Cheers,
Rich
 
I said it's a little bit to much to talk about a fake Tokai - because Tokais are fakes themselves. You cannot fake a thing that is already a fake - in my book anyway.

Of course people here don't wanna hear this in the Tokai church - but that doesn't change the facts that Tokai did not design Les Pauls, Strats or Teles - lets say they borrowed the design (borrow things like that in this part of the world means stolen...)

When people say that Tokais are better than Fenders - how is that measured out? I've seen good ones and bad ones from both camps - I've even owned and played at least two Tokai "strats" that were excellent - but still they were not of original design. And still you can get five Tokais for the price of one Fender or Gibson... even the 70s strats.
 
What is it you want Troels? Do you want us all to throw our arms up in the air and repent our sins as owners of evil fakes? Do you want us to acknowledge that you have taught us the truth that had previously eluded us?

I think the argument against your argument has been expressed well in this thread, but you're still not happy with it. So just tell us what it is you want us to say - personally I'd be tempted to say what you want just to shut you up!

:lol:

Anyone bought any nice fakes recently?

:wink:
 
Troels said:
And still you can get five Tokais for the price of one Fender or Gibson... even the 70s strats.
Click to expand...

Really? Be a good chap and run along and get me five Springy ST80s for the price of one Fender would you? Say the price of a new US62RI - about ?1200. If you can get me even two good ST80s for that money, you'll be my friend for life! :lol:

Have you ever played an ST80? I was skeptical when I joined the forum, and people told me I would like an ST80 as much as I love my gorgeous Custom Shop Strat - but I was wrong (as you are....). Time and time again, I picked the Springy for gigs. It has real mojo, character, & everything I want from a Strat. How can I say it's better than a Fender? Well I don't say that, I love my Fenders, but I still keep playing my Tokais.
 
AlanN said:
I think the clue's in his name. Please do not feed the troels.
Click to expand...

except for the spelling :D but even that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and Fenders... and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???
 
Troels said:
except for the spelling :D but even that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and Fenders... and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???
Click to expand...

I'm going to say this slowly now...
  • Tokais are not fakes because they never put Fender or Gibson on the headstock.

    The fake Canadian Tokais are fake because they put Tokai on the headstock when they are not.
    Simple as that.

/Magnus
 
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